Upturn in Spanish property sales?

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16 Aug 2016 18:41 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

Particularly true if you look at the some of the stuff (Terraza de la Torre for example) which is currently being marketed at 43000euros for a 2 bed one bath apartment.   Not really much sign of the green shoots of recovery there.   





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16 Aug 2016 19:41 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

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The real problem is, and has been since around 2008, that there are so many places like the one you mentioned advertised for sale all over the place, that many so-called buyers seem to think that a 2 bed one bath apartment in Spain (anywhere) should not cost them more than €43,000. A slight exaggeration (humour me!) but estate agents around here have told me that basically any 2 bed property priced over €120,000 is impossible to sell, because people just aren't willing to pay more than that for two bedrooms. It's like saying a Mini has four wheels and costs, say, ten grand; a Maserati has four wheels too, so I shouldn't have to pay any more than ten grand.



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16 Aug 2016 23:52 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 377 posts Send private message

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There's none so blind as those who will not see. As per the title of the thread, there is clearly an upturn in Spanish property sales which has developed over the last 2 years.


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 17/08/2016.

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17 Aug 2016 09:17 by Woodbug Star rating. 371 posts Send private message

Sensible honest operators in the construction industry NEVER refer to any building in terms of m2 as it is like comparing a car with a car, it’s misleading and dangerous in respect of estimating construction costs and sale values. Never a day goes past without someone asking us “Roughly how much a square metre would it cost for………?

As an example one room could be say, 20m2 so a 5m x 4m room would be 18 linear metres of wall and a 10m x 2m room would be 24 lm – so X by a height of say 2.6m and you have a difference of 15.6m2 on the walls alone. In a building described as 150m2 the configuration can make a huge difference to an overall m2 price.

Also a high-end finishing spec can make a world of difference in end cost in both new-build and 2nd user homes, although how the sub-standard concrete meat lockers that are thrown up in Spain can justify the ridiculous prices they achieve (even in a recession) the good Lord only knows.





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17 Aug 2016 10:13 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

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"there is clearly an upturn in Spanish property sales "

Perhaps, if you go by simple stats alone. But national stats are largely meaningless at a local level. Unless, of course, you are willing to believe an average house in, say, Hull will set you back £200,000.

Just as UK stats are skewed by London and the SE, so Spanish stats are easily skewed by what may be happenig in Madrid & Barcelona. Since the majority of members of EOS are more likely to be interested in the CDS or Costa Blanca, how about some stats for those regions alone? Even then, the market in Marbella will give a misleading picture for the overall CDS. 

No offence meant, but there's none so blind as those who base their perceptions on published stats alone.



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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

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17 Aug 2016 13:28 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

It seems some poster on here prefers to question things privately, in spite of the fact I have asked him, in the past not to.

 

For the doubters out there:    https://www.kyero.com/en/property/3013416-apartment-for-sale-las-terrazas-de-la-torre-golf-resort

2 bed, 1 bathroom on Terrazas de la torre for well under 50000euros.    





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17 Aug 2016 16:32 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Upturn in Spanish property sales?

Well yes, on our 10 house Costa del Sol urbanisation there has been. In the last 12 months four of the houses have changed hands - the first sales since 2007! 

Prices achieved are still some 20% below 2007 levels



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17 Aug 2016 17:07 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

Yes same around here.  Property is selling, but prices are still very low, and in fact, 20% below 2007 levels is not bad.  Around here, and in Murcia, they have not returned to those levels.     And sadly for those wanting to sell, the agents around here (never happy I know) are saying that the little flurry has already ended since Brexit.   That is for apartments on complexes mainly aimed at Brits clearly.    





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17 Aug 2016 22:56 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 377 posts Send private message

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Hi Roberto

Totally agree that there are regional variations. These figures are available by community, province, town and even area from places like fotocasa.es.

The thread is about an upturn in spanish property sales. There clearly is overall in Spain and some regions are hotter than others. I have yet to see any evidence that demonstrates there has been a continued downturn in sales since 2014 although I do accept that some regions have been quite flat.

If I am not to base my perceptions on published actual sales across Spain, what should I base them on?


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 18/08/2016.

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17 Aug 2016 23:17 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

and yet your original link was to an article about property prices?  As opposed to an upturn in sales?





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17 Aug 2016 23:26 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 377 posts Send private message

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Yes, of course! There is absolutely no correlation whatsoever between increasing sales, decreasing property availability and rising prices. House prices obviously exist in a total vacuum devoid of any influence from supply and demand.

How stupid am I?


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 17/08/2016.

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18 Aug 2016 09:11 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

Well, I don't know, Duncan, but I wish you would stop sending me private messages to tell me how stupid I am, or how I am 'letting myself down'.    No idea what is in  the FOUR latest I have not opened - that is in less than 24 hours, but I would ask again that you stop doing it.  I have no intention of looking at them. 

I hope that your property does increase x3 and reaches your desired 120000 euros by your date of 2025.    It would mean my property too was achieving similar rises.    But being pragmatic, I would have to point out that to achieve this, it would mean an astonishing 20% annual rise (or even a bit more, my maths is not great).   And this in two areas of Spain (yours and mine - Murcia and Almeria) which still have the highest percentage of 'glut' or unsold properties.

 





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18 Aug 2016 10:27 by Woodbug Star rating. 371 posts Send private message

We all know that several "sources" of property information exists here and very little of it is reliable. All figures in Spain are massaged to suit the dependent cause and of course the many hundreds, if not thousands of British estate agents never have a poor month do they? 

Brit hotspots e.g Malaga, Almeria and Murcia may have had an increase in sales but they represent a very small percentage on the Spanish map. Until Spain and the EU are steady again and employment rises significantly enabling Spanish buyers to enter the market, nothing will change.

Why a handful of Brit ex-pats seem to think that they are controlling the Spanish housing market is beyond me – and over the years I have become fed up with smug Brits telling us all how shrewd they are and how much money they will/have made on a property deal.





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27 Aug 2016 09:16 by MANXMONKEY Star rating in Channel Islands. 81 posts Send private message

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Local sales seem to have picked up but I'm not convinced aboyt Brits buying. As soon as people realise they will lose 13% the moment they've bought a property and that if prices go up by 1 or 2% a year .... renting makes a good option unless you're migrating. Add in the usual property taxes and costs, the possibility that 180+ days may become 90 before someone is trying to grab tax on your world-wide income and of course it's easy to walk away from a rented property if your lovely neighbour moves and sells to a lottery winner just out of jail...





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27 Aug 2016 09:41 by karibu Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

Well I'm not sure what this really means, but 3 properties owned by the "banks" were sold in one month on our Community.  They have been vacant for 10 years.  Over the last 5 years the "run rate" has been less than 1 sale a year.  Other activity I have observed, private sales etc also seem to be picking up, it must be said though, at vastly reduced prices compared to the peak.





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27 Aug 2016 10:20 by Woodbug Star rating. 371 posts Send private message

That’s the most sensible post on this thread Manxmonkey - the Brits are obsessed with home ownership and dive in feet first at the first possible opportunity. There is a lot to learn here, and I mean a lot, before you should even consider putting roots down. Living here is worlds apart from holidaying here so why buy at arm’s length from UK when you have no idea what you are doing? It can be a minefield from the outset as estate agents will only tell you what you want to hear and lawyers are nothing like their UK counterparts, then factor in anomalous property laws, local council laws (all different) and of course the taxes based on inflated prices.

During the peak of property madness an old Spanish corridor told me:

“The British come to Spain on holiday, go home to England but leave their hearts here.

They come back to Spain get their hearts but they leave their brains back in England”.





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27 Aug 2016 11:07 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4523 posts Send private message

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Yes, sensible post, but the exhorbitant costs associated with property ownership in Spain apply to Spaniards as well as foreign buyers. There's so much talk about freedom of movement (of people) within the EU, but when it costs so much to buy & sell property, it inhibits the mobility of the workforce, regardless of the laws on movement. Young people in Spain are renting rather than buying, not just because property is overpriced in relation to wages, but because you lose every which way when you come to sell & buy elsewhere (for example, to move to where there is work). A recent current affairs program on Spanish TV was banging on about now being the best time ever to buy, since 30 year mortgages at record low interest rates will not be around much longer - but still people are preferring to rent and "throw money away"! Until the Spanish govt. recognise the need for a bouyant property market and do something, I can't see there being a really significant upturn. Raising taxes during an economic crisis seems like one massive shot in the foot to me. 8% of nothing is never going to equate to more than 7% of something.

Edit to add: Just seen this article on the subject, which conveniently leaves out of the equation the other associated costs of owning a property, such as community fees & IBI (normally paid by the landlord) not to mention the taxes and fees involved in buying (& selling). This "expert" is choosing to oversimplify. Surprisingly, he didn't throw some meaningless stats into the mix too!

 


This message was last edited by Roberto on 27/08/2016.

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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

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27 Aug 2016 11:13 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

You also lose when you die and so do your inheritors.crying



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27 Aug 2016 12:31 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1094 posts Send private message

Agreed Roberto. The extortionate cost of moving (up or down) in Spain must really put people off. We were looking at a bungalow nearer the beach last year. €225,000 and asking €170,000 for our current property. The fees for selling and buying including agents, notary, taxes and the other things associated would have come to around €35,000. That's money you'll never get back and there is no way the property would increase in value by that much. Especially if the tax people suddenly decide the property was undervalued and hit you with an extra imputed transfer tax on top.

 





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27 Aug 2016 20:10 by karibu Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

Tooo true, we looked at doing the same, buying and sellig at similar costs,,,,but 35000 euros (and the rest, removals etc).  Cheaper to sell and rent for the next 10 years, and no inheraitance tax problems...?, plus flexibility if we dont like where we move to, cant affor dto make a mistake.





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