Upturn in Spanish property sales?

inspectahomespain,

I totally agree on the personal insults, the worst for hurling these are also the first to interpret innocent observations and comments as insults, probably because they expect others to do as they do.

On the Brit purchase front, there is something that is labled 'imagined poverty', roughly translated this means that people who have good safe jobs/pensions along with investments and savings etc believe the post Brexit armageddon predictions that they are constantly bambarded with. These guys aren't going to take any chances until they feel safe and secure, and although I don't agree with them, I do respect their fears and trepidation.  

Destry, You hit the nail on the head.  people are battoning down the hatches for a while but at the right price there are buyers of all nationalities including Brits.  Especially if they are on the Public Employee Gravy Train, they have no worries.
I know someone who found a nice villa (I liked it myself but I'm sitting tight) but then has plumped for a new build villa because he thinks the pound will recover by the time it's built.....hmm, I've been trading currencies for 35 years and all I can guarantee is NO ONE I've ever known has other than wild guesses at currencies including those on 2 million a year salaries. Yes if Jim Rogers and george Sorros get together and short anything it will bomb for a while but generally the markets are unpredictable - other than the one constant, they do not like uncertainty.
I also thought about my friend's situation and the cost per square metre is way more than the 12 year old immaculate villa he liked - who knows, maybe Thursday will see a drop in the Euro and the start of another banking crisis!! Shares in the oldest bank in the World (Monte dei Paschi di Siena) and germany's two biggest banks already read like a dodgy fair ground roller coaster ride.
Talking of graps I think looking at property price graphs around the whole of Spain the average price now is the same as it was in 2005.  Or to anyone buying in Yankee or Singapore dollars now at a huge discount, or in pounds now considerably more expensive!  Itt's however you want to look at it, is the glass half full?
to anyone selling I hope you find a buyer, to those wishing to buy I hope you find somewhere perfect for you. And to those of you who have just signed a new 12 month lease at a reasonable rent and already hedged your Euros for the next 12 months, well done!

Using the m2 principle to establish a cost is a crazy way to compare price or cost any building project. On external walls alone there can be a huge cost difference. An example shown below demonstrates the massive difference between the two footprints comprising the 160m2 of the unit. The difference of 80m2 @€250 m2 would be €20k just for the external walls alone.

20 x 8 = 160m2 56lm of walls x 2.5m height = 140m2 of walls

40 x 4 = 160m2 88lm of walls x 2.5m height = 220m2 of walls

EOS is no different to any other board on the "personal insults" front.  Too many people lack the ability to stand back and see a comment being made at face value.  They are over sensitive and take umbrage far too quickly and "retaliate" when if fact they are misreading the situation. 

But as my mum used to say "there's nowt so queer as folk"!   I find if you say that to yourself each time you think someone is making a stupid personal comment you don't waste time on silly exchanges.

Woodbug. I'm talking about a 1,200M plot v 800M plot and a 280 sqM property v a 230sqM property. And the landscaping is really nice. You can easily spend 35k on landscaping. Also anyone buying a property from Auckland to Vancover costs on the sq M or foot or as per my own company, Riverside Properties Pty, in Melbourne in Squares. I've never sold a property in the last 25 years where people haven't asked the build size, the terrace size and the plot size. 

We have designed, engineered and built hundreds of units up to 7 floors in UK and Europe over the last 40 years and never once has m2 or m3 ever been part of our process for the reasons explained in my previous post. My colleague here is a QS and he tells me that putting a value on fresh air is something he can't do either.

Woodbug. You are living in a different world to me. I am literally looking at a real estate site right now (I'm in Singapore) EVERY single advert states the sq.M and you know even the report I read in Spain last month stated average sq M costs and compared them to previous years BUT AS I CLEARLY STATED this is only part of my argument against my friend's buying decision as his decision is based on hoping for fx changes which may not come about. Did you even read my post? 

Thanks for your suggestion acer, I would never have thought of it until I read your post, keep smiling.

In Spain the Sq Mt, building and plot sizes are often part of the decision process and ALWAYS published as part of the sales brochure

In new builds they do make better use of space, lots of glass and open plan design

It amazes me that the hottest properties at present are 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom 2 storey new designed villas where the build size is 105 sq mts and the typical plot size 200 sq mts, all this for €270k

In Spain there is often a culture of tear down and build new whereas Britian has more of a fixer upper mentality.

Whereas in Spain you see old houses in city centres getting refurbished, on urbsanisations this is extremely rare. Many urbanisations and resorts were built between the 1960s and 1980s and were often shoddy and low budget even when new.  Building materials and methods used in Spain at that time were often inferior to what they are today, but even by the Spanish standards of the day these houses were often at the low end of the quality scale. Furthermore, in terms of size, floor plan and overall ambience, there isn't really very much demand for that type of house these days. Many older houses and even relatively new ones (1980s build is not old in my book) are thus worth only marginally more than the land they occupy. in that respect square or even cubic metres of built house don't really have a big influence on the value. If you're looking at an older property, you should definitely and foremost be asking how much land there is and what it's worth. Sellers frequently tend to round up square meters when it comes to land and there are even disparities between what the catastro and / or escritura says and what you actually get. So it is well worth spending some time researching this. Google Earth aeriel photographs can help you get an approximate estimate on the land area. If you are looking at property priced well above the land value you need to be asking what there is to make it worth that differential and whether that value will be maintained or whether it will fizzle away as the building ages.This is not the Uk where even old and ugly and poorly built houses maintain a considerable value of their own accord. Some houses in Spain are very well built and will maintain an inherent value indefinitely, but beware many of the cheaply built properties.

Good post amogles, I always consider Spain and the UK to have a completely different interpretation of the word old. The UK has 50's/60's tower blocks with listed status, whereas the Spanish don't appear to have the will to justify the continuance of these architectural disasters. I absolutely love Spanish village houses, the use of the roof (in many cases) as outside space makes them very interesting. The UK is a past master of restoring old cottage style terraces into prestigeous living, but of course it hasn't got the space that Spain has, my son and his wife own a 4 story, 1200 square feet, 3 double bed Victorian terraced with Chelsea style garden in a nice rural location, but it values at circa £200K, there are villas with pools in Spain for far less, and going inland in Spain gives even better value, which is not the case in the UK.     

Surely Manxmonkey as a globe trotting property expert and entrepreneur will appreciate that danger of valuing properties per m2 whether it's in Sigapore, Vancouver, Melborne or Aukland (although this is Spain). We do live in a totally different property world where our clients expect a professional service and not a guestimate of a property cost or value compiled for general release on a website that is probably biased or ill-informed.

Oh dear Woodbug, that's two of my posts you just spouted back to without reading. Or are you simply not comprehending what Ive written?  Can I suggest you read again but slower. Maybe you didn't read the other reply from the agent who stated categorically what we all know, every agent in Spain who is not a cowboy fool quotes the square metres of the property, the terraces and THE LAND.  As I CLEARLY STATED I was simply pointing out that with a new property you must expect smaller plot sizes and also build sizes. This isn't a new phenomenon. I remember when I built my first pair of semis in 1976 the first couple to view said they were beautiful but "like shoe boxes" compared to their Edwardian terrace down the road. 

 Seems everyone, apart from myself,  contributing to this thread,  is a REA. Tell me it isn't really so...

Strange I remember the days when this forum was all about the usefull exchange of information and not point scoring

Anyway I agree with both posters in different ways, fisrt of all it is VITAL that you not only understand the meterage of the property that you are buying, regardless if it is a resale or new build, the building and plot size and of course that it matches what is on the deeds

One thing people don't check enough, on new builds, is that the ACTUAL plot size and property size, match the sales documentation and contracts. A real example going to to be snagging inspections was on Peralajec Golf, some villas costing €750. frontine golf, the plots when checked were 80 sq mts short, on a row of 5 properties and they had to change the boundaries on the course

Next the typical square box type new build villas these days, what I call lock and leave are around 105 sq mt build on around 200 sq mt plots, walled with a pool, and that normally is the internal build not including outside terraces, yes the buildings are often smaller overall but clever design, open plan and glass, give the appearance of more space

In Spain however there isn't much meaning in the actual price per sq mt, as this varies dramatically by area, example land around Villamartin costs more than land in Murcia, the actualy build costs however, the cost to build a new home on a plot typically don't vary much, typically, within the Orihuela Costa area costiing around €300k and near the coast in Murcia nearer 250k

If you are buying a plot then local regulations will dictate the percentage of the land that can be built on, again a real example the Campoverde area,  where I have recently sold a plot with a house on which the buyers intend to expand, here the percentage is 30% of the plot size is OK for building, either a single or multiple structures

Thank you inspectahome. You previously already confirmed what I've said but once again I agree with you.  I have never said that you should cost a property on size I just stated that agents quote the sizes.  Then WB came on and said no one he knew quoted sizes.  Yes of course, like yourself they all do and it makes sense so you can see clearly if you're going to waste time looking at a place with a hectare field when you are looking to downsize and sack the gardener or vice versa...the small villas you've mentioned certainly make sense as a lock up and leave alternative to an apartment. I should imagine they'd give a better return if you were to rent them out when you're not there. My kids want 4 things on holiday in this order, pool, tennis court, nearby beach and...a good restaurant. 

No Floella - There are two of us that aren't REA.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

A few years since I last posted on this thread. Property value now at 142% of purchase price after less than four years.

Well on the way to my guestimate of 200-300% rise in 10 years

I am wondering if people are still thinking house prices in Spain are not on the up?

Roly2? 

See you in 2025. Still optmimistic on that 200%-300% increase 

Oh that's funny - I thought you were on this resort: