The Greek crisis

Don't talk daft steone, that would mean that Germany hadn't won the peace.

There really are some stupid people on here....Germans had nothing to do with the last war........it was only the Nazi's.!!!!!!

Why was it ok for the U.S.A. to allow the Germans (previously known as Nazi's) to stop paying reparations but the  EAST German leader, M/s. A Merkle, will not allow the Greeks to do the same?

What do I hear "apples and pears"?

Hephaestus,

Poppyseed

Call me old fashioned but I tend to lean towards the nation that was invaded, enslaved, had it's citizens murdered, raped and tortured and it's banks stripped of their assets.

I agree!

What was the point of having a referendum when the Greeks are preparing to concede more than they said No to on Sunday?

Team GB, 

They are simply wheeling and dealing, what do you want them to do, lay down and die?

They are simply wheeling and dealing, what do you want them to do, lay down and die?

Well the news tonight seems to suggest that they have done just that, they have agreed to more austerity than they voted on last Sunday!! Capitulation is the word used by The Guardian. 

I blame the French

TeamGB

Pourquoi?

 Again from The Guardian.

Officials here are saying that all hope now rests with the French connection. Paris has dispatched a team of technocrats to help finance minister Euclid Tsakalotos draft the new proposal in an effort to ensure it is as convincing as can possibly be.

One insider says:“It is being done all over again, measure by measure. They are offering invaluable assistance.”

In my opinion the Euro can never work under its present format. How can you have one country doing very well economically, like Germany and France, and another doing badly, like most of the Mediterranean countries? It is paramount to have one single economic policy. One can not have virtual autonomy in each individual country yet still use the same currency without the richer countries subsidising the poorer ones. If the richer countries are not prepared to FULLY subside the poorer countries then there will always be situations like Greece which will then be closely followed by Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and so on.

To make the Euro work all countries must harmonise their (in no particular order) pensions, defence, health services, social services and many more. It only causes resentment from the richer countries to have their workforce work until, say, 65 before State Pension whereas a poorer country one can get State Pension from age 50. It will not work!!! You can not have one country spending 2% of GDP on defence whereas another country only spends under 1% of GDP. It will not work!!! You can not have one country spending 20% of GDP on social services whereas another only spends 10%. It will not work!!! Need I go on?

Whilst the theory of a single currency is a very good and admirable one it MUST have a single political base to harmonise it.

To see how nonsensical the Euro has been look at the money that was 'thrown' at the Mediterranean countries and what they did with it. Most took the money as a gift and just blew most of it on ridiculous schemes without thinking it through. As just one example look at the ghost airports in Spain.

To conclude the theory of a single currency is great but the application is disastrous.

Let the arguments begin.........

And now the 'jokes'................

As of this week, all new Euros are to be printed on Greece-proof paper.

Syria has appealed for international assistance today, after a boatload of 500 Greeks arrived seeking a better life.


What are the first three letters of the Greek alphabet?
I.O.U.

I'm investing in a new currency...the George Foreman Euro.
Same as the other Euro, but no Greece.

Alex Tsipras has said that Greece will "Bounce Back".
Just like it's cheques.

My son wanted to know what it was like to live in Greece, so I took his pocket money off him.

It's not over until the fat lady sings.

She's not even taken her coat off yet!

Must admit I have a grudging respect for the Greeks and a suppressed dislike of how Merkle does business. Merkle now has problems.

Chrisitne LeGarde went against Merkle admitting last week that Greece needed debt relief. Hollande ( France) is openly aiding Greece. She obviously does no want Greece in the euro - but how can she kick them out now they have capitulated.???

What sums it up is a quote on the web  that says " Greece is the canary in the mine"

Here's another interesting article to throw into the debate.....

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/30/8868973/euro-greece-crisis-mistake

The deal according to reuters July 13th 10.08:

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKKBN0P40FR20150713

According to the Guardian: 

The new measures Greece must now implement

I would like to know how under these terms can Greece achieve longer term  growth without the ability to devalue their currency?
This message was last edited by ads on 13/07/2015.

Well the Greeks had taken the spotlight off the likes of Ireland, Portugal and Spain, who do you reckon will be next to step up to the inspection plate? 

I simply do not follow why Greece opted to stay with the Euro and all the financial limitations and controls that come with it.  Surely common sense was for them to revert to the drachma? 

If anyone understands why they feel they could not break away I would really like to understand. 

Surely Tsipras has to depart and slink away with his tail between his legs? - he's just made it worse.

What would they do with a drachma that was worth nothing? Zimbabwe style inflation, unable to buy fuel, medicines or anything else they don't produce. As the banks are virtually broke, what would back up the currency? Just printing the stuff wouldn't help them. Maybe they should have compromised a bit on the original plan instead of hanging on, running a worthless referendum and finally capitulating. 

There's also a far wider concept to consider here.

Isn't the moral of the story (alongside necessary reforms to tackle tax evasion etc) to make banks far more ethical and accountable in their lending criteria, to be far more community conscious by the formation of community banks and thereby challenge the concept where "Conventional banks are legally bound to maximize return for their clients. If clients are concerned with more than simple return (i.e. the costs of the return on other areas such as society and the environment) then they may need to turn to an ethical bank to find ways in which they can garner return while keeping to their own moral concerns...."

Banks/financial institutions would have to comply if there was a widespread call from its citizens to reform in this manner and for them to speak with their feet so to speak, by moving their monies to those financial organisations that had transparent trusted regulatory safeguards in place which pay sufficient attention to promoting growth in their own communities ( without abusive hidden agendas, I hasten to add).

Could we all not indirectly play a part in this longer term solution by calling for a more regulated community orientated banking system?

If growth is essential to assist Greece pay its restructured debts in the longer term, then the creditors also need to be made accountable for putting in place an ethical structure that assists local communities to thrive and grow in the lengthy interim period.

So long as a mechanism to grow their economy is denied the Greeks by having no means of devaluing their currency, then the European Union should identify alternative ethical strategies to growth, because austerity measures have already been proven to accentuate the problem of debt, not solve it.

Why do we never hear about alternative strategies, why are the EU following a route that we know from the outset is doomed to fail? It just doesn't make sense.

This message was last edited by ads on 14/07/2015.

The EU is just a far larger version of something none connected running your families private and personal business, the single currency is proving itself to be unworkable, Greece has just been a prelude to a far bigger picture.  

What would they do with a drachma that was worth nothing? Zimbabwe style inflation, unable to buy fuel, medicines or anything else they don't produce. As the banks are virtually broke, what would back up the currency? Just printing the stuff wouldn't help them. Maybe they should have compromised a bit on the original plan instead of hanging on, running a worthless referendum and finally capitulating. 

Thanks for the reply Mariedav.  I've got some old drachma notes and coins hanging about and was hoping I might find a use for them.  The Greek collapse seems a bit weird to me.  I realise that the drachma was never a strong currency but it served it's purpose, which is more than can be said for the Euro, well at least from the Greek perspective.  Should the Euro should come with a warning " using this currency may endanger your wealth"?

At the moment it almost appears as though the weaker economies are the pawns in the equation of the eurozone and unless some form of credible concessions in terms of growth and realistic incentives to remain are made to those countries, the stronger the likelihood that social disruption and bad feeling will grow (sadly).