The Greek crisis

Most countries in the EU are bankrupt - it's only their borrowing powers that keep them going. If they were comercial entities the banks would have stopped loaning them money years and years ago - UK has just paid off its WW1 debts thats 100 years to repay a single debt - where could anyone else get credit like that? Interesting point about tax evasion, the Greek black economy stands at 30% of GDP - Spain isn't far behing at 26% of GDP. And why is there such a huge tax avoidance problem? Austerity is the cause, inflicted on the EU by their very own leaders bankers and the almighty IMF.

Yes we're also paying off the debt to the USA in respect of us having to borrow to build more ships, while much of our fleet was protecting the USA until they could replace the fleet lost at Pearl Harbour.

So we come full circle back to the requirement for a better managed, realistic timeframe to repay debt? 

A timeframe that allows Governments and people alike to adjust to the realities and social responsibilities to retain a decent and basic lifestyle, but equally give them hope and realistic aspiration for their future lives.

There is much ignorance about the background detail of how debt has been accumulated, on what grounds it was sought in the first place, how manipulative ploys by those with hidden agendas and freedom to abuse in all manner of "clever" complex financial products have played their part in this whole sorry scenario, but doesn't history teach us that austerity, whilst instilling a sense of reality into the equation, also has to take into account of the need for effective regulatory controls to prevent future abuse on this vast scale AND a clear analytical approach to a balanced fair solution that takes into account all contributing factors?

To make one section of society pay the heavy price for such a complex mix of contributory factors seems uncivilised in this day and age. Surely we have the ability to reflect and never to be too proud (from all sides) to admit where major compromising errors were made along the way,  but to spread the corrective measures in a fair accountable fashion?

To me the need for effective independent regulation (or even encouragement for self regulation where disincentives can be effectively applied)  is critical to all too many scenarios where extremes exist, i.e. abusive manipulative and corrupt practice on the one hand, coupled with  irresponsible behaviour on the other (for all manner of complex reasons I might add and some irresponsibly encouraged by that same manipulative source) , especially wherever the impact of failure to adequately control results in such devastating and far reaching consequences.

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Very well put

Hephaestus has observed

"I was listening to BBC radio yesterday, there was a Greek intellectual v a German political journalist discussing this matter. The German guy was adamant that Greece had swindled Germany in respect of unpaid loans, that was until the Greek guy said that Gemany could always deduct the debt from WW2 reparations that Germany underpaid Greece, I believe that the Greek prime minister has also said something similar.

I guess that there is always another way of looking these things. "

There are some who argue, according to this 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_reparations_for_World_War_II

that the reparations issue was resolved in 1990 however, so who do we believe?

As a moral argument however, where do you draw the line between "moving on" from disputed resolutions to the reparation issue from WW!!, etc, without equal regard to debt that has arisen as a consequence of complex contributing factors?

Let's hope that in terms of an educative process to comprehend the wider picture, that people will realise it's not as black and white as some would suggest. But also, that this wider perspective and an open mind is essential in order to reach a fair and ethical solution.

Nobody has mentioned the fact that there was a huge 'cooking of the books' and a huge over statement of wealth that enabled Greece to meet the criteria needed to join the EU in the first place.

Once again perpertrated by global banking insitutions.

The end game now is just so predictable, but is it the end? I think not!! just the begining of the end

Team GB, the book cooking probably applies to all of the PIGS membership, it just shows how stupid Brussels was in believing what they wanted to believe.

For this situation to have deteriorated to such a degree, the EU have sadly failed to demonstrate robust and comprehensive risk management, or provide a viable framework to ensure regulatory compliance and efficient governance existed to protect its EU ctizens from all manner of financial "irregularities" that have reared their ugly head during this past decade. 

It's completely immoral to place the burden on those who have little understanding of complex financial "arrangements" or hidden intent which have impacted on their lives in such devastating fashion, when it is the duty of those in whom they placed their trust to oversee and regulate against such compromising circumstances, whether this be at national or EU level.

Hence the requirement for ethical and moral solutions to this crisis and a strict regulatory framework to be put in place, whether at National or EU level to prevent future reoccurrence.

Greeks in a Nutshell

Many Greeks feel morally justified to steal from someone richer or from the state. This is based on an assumption that someone richer or the state have acquired wealth through immoral means making stealing from those entities morally permissible. Certain taxi drivers, for example, will steal from American or British customers because the latter are perceived as being richer and because their countries are believed to have acquired wealth through immoral methods such as war and invasion. 

The average Greek would rather see a rich person come down to his level than see himself rise to the level of the rich person. That is why many Greeks come across as being communist, no matter what party they vote for. Money has a bad reputation in the minds of many Greeks. This unconscious belief is believed to originate from the New Testament which equates rich people to evil people and wealth to greed. 

Most Greeks have a weak character. They are fear-driven and can be easily bribed. Right now, for example, a mafia organization is running public hospitals. It plants unqualified workers from Eastern European countries inside clinics who offer nurse services for a fee of 50 Euros. The reasons why those workers are allowed to operate are two: 1) They give a percentage of their earnings to the doctors, proving that Greeks are bribeable. 2) They threaten to call their mafia guards on anyone that will blow the whistle, proving that Greeks are fear-driven. 

This is not a new phenomenon. Remember that restaurant owners have always had to pay a percentage of their earnings to people of the night (god fathers) who offer bogus protection services. (Protection from whom?). 

Because Greeks succumb to bribery and to threat their country is weak. It should come as no surprise that Greece succumbs to Turkish threats on a routine basis. Do you remember that incident in 1994 when 18 Greek Orthodox pilgrims were killed in Egypt by Islamic terrorists? You know what Israel would have done. Greece didn't do anything. Just like it hasn't done anything about Northern Cyprus for 40 years. Or about Solomos Solomou. 

 Many Greeks are highly complex-ridden individuals. This is especially true of many women who are unreasonably rude and prone to quarreling. The excuse given is that they were oppressed for a long time and do not really know how to handle their newly given power and freedoms. 

They have nothing to offer me and I would rather live in Spain anyway.

Some of the comments in this thread are getting very silly. 

Europe is a continent where the nations have always been at war. It was hoped that the EU would help change this. Unfortunately the original architects did not want to accept what they were told in the mid 90's. Everyone in the EU will need to accept that unless all nations offer equal opportunities then the people will migrate from the poorer countries to the wealthier or they will need handouts.  There is no smoke, no mirrors no complex financial derivatives causing the issue it gets down to sharing the wealth and I don't believe any of us is truly altruistic enough to rise to that challenge

hughjardon,

The late Sir Paddy Leigh Fermor would have taken great issue with you on the content of your very strange post, as it happens you have made yourself look very silly.  

Just been looking for property for sale in Greece thought i would find plenty of bargains, Not to be, much better deals to be had in Murcia Spain

Yes Hepititus your right he would have if he was alive still but not now the Greeks have done exactly the same to him as they have always done to others not kept there promises the poor sods old gaff is now condemned I here along with many historical museums places of former interest 

And Athens is now a Ghetto graffiti everywhere so disrespectful I hope they get kicked out of the Eurozone sooner than later do us all a favour

ps if you booked to go on holiday take sterling not euros advice from the man that knows

Love Hugh xx

hughjardon,

He loved the Greek people and their laid back life style, and would very likely have agreed with you on their unsuitability for EU membership. However you come over as being very vitriolic about the Greek people, just because their politicians are as bent as a bottle of crisps, loosen up it might never happen.  

hughjardon,

He loved the Greek people and their laid back life style, and would very likely have agreed with you on their unsuitability for EU membership. However you come over as being very vitriolic about the Greek people, just because their politicians are as bent as a bottle of crisps, loosen up it might never happen.  

I'm a pragmatist, and for what it's worth, have three reflections about this:

• Right or wrong, we live in a global market, and I'm not aware of any examples since WWII that have defied global economics.  If the numbers don't add up, it won't fly.  You simply can't buck the market.
• The EU is an artificial construct.  I'm not aware of any other examples since the Holy Roman Empire of nation states sublimating to a greater entity.  Worse than that, the Euro assumes that one exchange rate can be suited to economies as diverse as Greece or Portugal and Germany.  No way.
• Greece has a very laid back outlook on life, as has been mentioned previously.  Great.  If it is affordable and within the EU construct, it was seen as so.  Not so.

The chickens have come home to roost.

It is incredible that anybody could possibly believe that 28 countries with different cultures, languages and economies would be able to live under one jurisdiction. As for having a single currency.........

The saying "there but for the luck of the pace of birth go I" (a take on the grace of God as religion is part of the problem)

Most countries are 1 step away from a similar crisis to wht is happening in Greec but we will not learn

Some reasons why we cannot live in harmony and equality

1. Greed

2. Selfishness

3. Corruption

4. Religion

5, Racism (even down to saying cultural differences)

6.Ignoring the needs of the majority for the benefit fo the few

7. Media brainwashing

 I have said many times we all have the same basic needs and until we prioritise these we will never get it right

The sad human slogan of I'm alright Jack is far too prevalent now

Well the proverbial has finally hit the fan, Greek banks closed for a week, the few ATM's with cash in them limiting withdrawals to €40.00 p/p p/d. The Euro has weakened against the $ and the £ by some 1.50%, is a bloodbath about to start?

My guess is that the FTSE will fall initially, but recover when money starts to flood into UK stocks, I can't see the USA being overly troubled by the happenings in Greece. By protecting against a run on their banks the Greek government may have bought some time, if not we will know by close of business tomorrow.