Driving a Spanish Registered car in the UK

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20 Aug 2012 10:07 AM by spiderman Star rating in Lancashire/Salado. 16 posts Send private message

We are considering driving our (Legal)Spanish car to the UK to enable us to transport a few large items to our place in Spain, I did hear that as a UK citizen you are not allowed to drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK but decided to check the facts with the DVLA. After a few roundabout answers they have confirmed that this is true but as yet have not been able to state which actual law would be broken. Has anyone ever driven their Spanish car in the UK  while still a UK resident and unaware of this been arrested/charged with an offence by the police ?

Please only answer on the topic, this is not a thread on corruption, poor quality housing, dog poo, unemployment, euthanasia, abortion, the eurozone or anything else that you are not happy about with Spain or the UK, thanks.





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20 Aug 2012 11:06 AM by potblack Star rating in Alicante & Singapore. 233 posts Send private message

potblack´s avatar

 

UK residents driving non-UK cars in the UK

UK residents are not allowed to use non-UK registered vehicles on UK roads. The only exceptions are:

  • if you work in another EU member state and use an EU-registered company car temporarily in the UK for business and private purposes
  • if you lease an EU-registered car and use this temporarily in the UK

I copied this from the link below. In my opinion, not a full explanation. What if you are a self employed ‘’Easyjet’’ pool cleaner. All sounds a bit ‘’pie crust’’ rules to me.

What is an EU registered company car ''Pedro & Pedro Ltd'' on the log book? Plus plod in the UK cannot read Spanish anyway.

Sorry I could not answer your question in full. I know many Brits who remain UK residents that happily drive their Spanish registered cars in the UK. But I suppose none of them have been challenged on the issue yet as far as I know.

 

 

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/ImportingAndExportingAVehicle/DG_10014623

 


This message was last edited by potblack on 20/08/2012.

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20 Aug 2012 6:57 PM by febe Star rating in Flix, on river Ebro,.... 240 posts Send private message

Hi,

You really do learn some thing new every day! I've never heard this one before. We've never had any trouble taking our spanish (well, right hand drive, spanish plated) cars to UK. Then again, never been stopped by the police. We  are living in spain now. We do know some one who was stopped, the only comment from the police being that their car didn't have an 'E' sticker on the back. Being an older car the number plate doesn't have the 'E' on it.

When still in UK we had a garage. We often imported japanese cars. (all right hand drive) I was given the job of driving them around for a short time, prior to UK registration, to see if they were running well and all things working fine. I had no idea that that was against the law. You'd think the insurance companies would tell you about this.

So long as the car is legal in it's place of registration and the driver is legal, ie. not drunk, got a licence, insured etc. What on earth can the problem be? I've seen on the news lately about foreign lorry drivers causing crashes in UK. They are driving left hand drive lorries on UK roads with no idea which side of the road they should be on. Surley being British, driving a left had drive car we stand a better chance of not causing an accident! We may be driving a 'cack hander' but at least we know the rules of the road.

If I were you I'd do just what you want to do. Take you spanish car to UK, collect your things and drive it back agian. What harm is there in that? I might just double check with your insurance company that you are covered for the trip though!

Take care,

Febe



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20 Aug 2012 7:42 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

Febe,
                         I think the problem one might encounter is that if not resident in Spain (ie. resident in UK) I believe they  cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in UK.  The same in that a person who is resident in Spain cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in Spain, except in unusual circumstances, which includes a garage testing the vehicle.
 
Spiderman does say whether he is resident (i.e. registered on the  EU Citizens Register). If he is then I am sure he will have no problems.





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21 Aug 2012 9:44 AM by potblack Star rating in Alicante & Singapore. 233 posts Send private message

potblack´s avatar

I think Spiderman is suggesting he is UK resident, but I am not absolutely sure.

I think we would all agree that many people take Spanish registered cars for different reasons and periods to the UK in all innocence whether they know they are a UK resident (or think they are a non UK resident).

As I said in my previous post, it all seems a load of pie crust rules. Which it probably is, but having thought more, what if something serious happens, like a major accident involving injury or death.

What proof is needed to prove you are working outside the UK? Re. Self employed ‘’Easyjet’’ pool cleaner?

How do you define a company car? Re ''Pedro & Pedro Ltd'' on the log book?

Then there is the situation of those who believe they are non UK residents, probably because they are on the foreign register, have a padron and all the rest. But who is the judge and jury of that? (Probably not HMRC, but they seem to have a lot to say about it).

HMRC

1.2 An introduction to residence

The terms ‘residence’ and ‘ordinary residence’ are not defined in the

Taxes Acts. Our guidance on these terms is largely based on rulings of the

Courts. This guidance tells you the main factors to take into account when

deciding your residence and ordinary residence status. Your status is

determined by the facts of your particular case. It is not simply a question of

the number of days you spend in the country.

Recently HMRC simplified this matter by publishing an 86 page document on whether you were UK resident or not.  About as clear as mud. It’s on the internet HMRC6 but I could not get the link, DNS server error.  

I am insured by Linear Direct and the policy has a green card to drive my car outside Spain. (Not to hand as I am in Singapore).

I would not like to put either my insurance or residence status to the test in a UK court of law if involved in a major accident there.

Possibly when we had the old residence card, it may have provided a reasonable defence. But what if you still have your UK licence like me and many others (registered at my sister’s address).

Perhaps this thread needs the expertise of Johnzx and the likes.   

eossupporter-trans



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21 Aug 2012 7:01 PM by El alamillo Star rating in Nottingham & El Alam.... 221 posts Send private message

I am a Uk Resident with my own Spanish registered vehicle in Spain

Why do Spanish insurance companies (Linnia Directa) then issue insurance Green card so that you can drive through and in

other europeian countries inc UK ????????????..

jb



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21 Aug 2012 7:07 PM by El alamillo Star rating in Nottingham & El Alam.... 221 posts Send private message

 

Just Found This

The Green Card system is to make it easier for vehicles to move freely over borders and to protect the interests of the victims of foreign registered vehicles. It’s overseen by the Economic Commission for Europe, based in Geneva.

The Green Card

The Green Card is a document that is recognised in over 40 countries including all the countries in Europe. 

It offers no insurance cover. It is proof that the minimum legal requirements for third party liability insurance in any country for which the Green Card is valid are covered by the insured's own motor policy.

Where the Green Card is needed

A Green Card is not required by law to cross borders within the European Union and some other countries. This is because all EU countries and certain other countries comply with the first directive on motor insurance, which says that every insurance policy issued in the EU must provide the minimum insurance cover required by law in any other EU country. 

The countries that don't need a Green Card are:

Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland

The countries that do need a Green card are:

Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), Islamic Republic of Iran, Israel, Moldova, Morocco, Russia, Serbia and Montenegro, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine.

Where to get a Green Card

Many insurers will issue a Green Card, but have no obligation to do so. If they will not, you may wish to make enquiries with other insurers or ask about getting border insurance at the point of entry into the country.

The Green Card document itself is only proof that the minimum third party liability cover required by law in the visited country is in force. You should check with your insurer to make sure that your UK policy cover is fully in force when you travel abroad whether or not a Green Card is issued.

Within the countries where frontier inspection is no longer required, the Green Card is still the insurance document most readily recognised and understood by national police forces. As you may need to produce evidence of insurance other than at a border, for example after an accident, you may consider it advisable to carry a Green Card to avoid any inconvenience.

The Green Card system is administered in the UK by the Motor Insurers’ Bureau (MIB).



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21 Aug 2012 7:17 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

 

People can insure UK reg vehicles in Spain,  but that does  not mean they can be legally used in Spain. albeit that they are covered by insurance.

 So the 'Green Card argument' carries no weight.

 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 21/08/2012.



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21 Aug 2012 7:18 PM by Poppyseed Star rating. 898 posts Send private message

I don't think the rule is anything to do with insurance, more likely to stop UK RESIDENTS bringing in foreign registered cars and not re-registering them or paying any import duty.



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21 Aug 2012 7:25 PM by spiderman Star rating in Lancashire/Salado. 16 posts Send private message

Thanks for the replies, yes I am at present a  UK citizen planning to move permanantly to Spain within the next 12 months or so depending on house sale here in the UK.

I understand and can fully accept the ruling regarding the 6 months limit on driving a foreign registered vehicle within the UK or similar restrictions for Spanish residents or any other EU country's residents for that matter driving foreign registered vehicles in their country's, what I find difficult to accept is that I would be breaking the law if I as a UK resident drove my own car in my own country.

I have asked the DVLA to let me know what exact law I would be breaking by driving my car in the UK but as yet have not received a reply. I think my next question will be to my local constabulary's traffic department asking for their experienced opinion.

  





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21 Aug 2012 8:17 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

Spiderman it works the same the otherway around too:- 


QUOTE

........   a person who is resident in Spain cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in Spain, except in unusual circumstances, which includes a garage testing the vehicle.





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22 Aug 2012 10:55 AM by prospain Star rating in Spain & Hong Kong. 38 posts Send private message

prospain´s avatar

Daily Telegraph

Driving foreign-registered cars in the UK

Reader tells Honest John of DVLA letter clarifying issue over driving a foreign-registered car in the UK.

Honest John

By Honest John

1:00PM BST 16 Sep 2009

Regarding the matter of a UK resident driving a foreign registered car, previously deemed illegal by the DVLA, I received last week a letter from DVLA.

Amongst other comments the letter states that 'In the circumstances where a UK resident is using an EU registered vehicle in the UK on a temporary basis, on a visit from their holiday home, for example, they are entitled to use the vehicle when visiting the UK.

We will be looking to amend the wording on the website to ensure this information is correctly reflected.' Who said our civil servants were rubbish?

M.J., via email

A result. But why the misinformation and confusion in the first place?



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23 Aug 2012 1:53 PM by spiderman Star rating in Lancashire/Salado. 16 posts Send private message

Just had an e-mail back from the DVLA, as usual, non-commital but advising me to visit my local library to search for the relevant legislation or use the internet to search for Circulation Order 1975 and/or European Directive 83/182. Strange how you cannot get straight answers from Government Depts. Had a quick look at 83/182 but will have to read in more detail, from first glance it looks like the rules change if you are a UK, EU or non-EU resident - suppose the first thing to determine is if I am a UK or EU citizen - wonder which Government Dept will be able to answer that ? Will plod on and let you know.





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23 Aug 2012 2:08 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

Spiderman,
                       with all due respect, I am surprised you asked the DVLA as they deal with UK registered vehicle and even then not with the law on driving in general.
 
The people you will have a `problem with are the police. They enforce traffic laws.
 
I am almost certain that as a UK resident you cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK.
 
A solution would be:
                                               If you spend or intend to spend three months permanently in Spain, you are obliged to register on the EU Citizen’s Register.   As soon as you have done that you become resident in Spain and tax resident in Spain. As such you can drive a Spanish register vehicle in the UK if you go there for a visit.





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23 Aug 2012 2:11 PM by dringman Star rating in www.Condadoexcursion.... 773 posts Send private message

dringman´s avatar

Can someone who is domicile in another EU country but resident in Spain , drive a non Spanish Registerred car in Spain? ie car registerred in another EU country not the one they are domiciled in? 

 

Now I am confused  so if I am from France , resident in Spain can I drive a UK registerred car in Spain? 



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23 Aug 2012 2:37 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

Sorry to keep on repeating this but it seems  I am not being understood.

Dringman, 

a person who is resident in Spain cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in Spain, except in unusual circumstances, which includes a garage testing the vehicle.

 

 

Domicile is not a factor.


This message was last edited by johnzx on 23/08/2012.



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23 Aug 2012 2:51 PM by dringman Star rating in www.Condadoexcursion.... 773 posts Send private message

dringman´s avatar

can you guide me to the law. are you author of book I bought? I am a legal taxi and I am fed up with residents driving uk reg vehicles as a taxi


This message was last edited by dringman on 23/08/2012.

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23 Aug 2012 3:05 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

Dringman,

I have never written a book (come close a few times).

Quote.

I am a legal taxi and I am fed up with residents driving uk reg vehicles as a taxi


They are breaking the law, both for driving UK reg vehicle and taking money for hire.  Of course they would not even be insured whilst doing taxi runs, thus putting all other road users at risk.





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23 Aug 2012 3:27 PM by potblack Star rating in Alicante & Singapore. 233 posts Send private message

potblack´s avatar

Yes, great question dringman that’s all we need. At the moment we cannot even come up with a dead cert answer on the original question.

DVLA have supposedly told spiderman to go to the library. That’s beyond belief.

How can a European Directive have anything to do with the enforcement of UK road traffic laws?

johnzx says he is ‘’almost certain’’ . No disrespect meant, but where is the clear legal evidence?

Then I asked. Then there is the situation of those who believe they are non UK residents, probably because they are on the foreign register, have a padron and all the rest. But who is the judge and jury of that? (Probably not HMRC, but they seem to have a lot to say about it). No answer.

So is it a case off: Mr spiderman you are charged under the law of the Geneva convention of illegally driving bla bla bla. And also your Spain residence is invalid under the law of the Northern Ireland peace agreement.

Two simple straight forward questions. How is Joe public supposed to know right from wrong?,



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23 Aug 2012 4:39 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

 

Potblack 
 
A Poster asked me if I had written a book. Well if everyone chooses to be as ‘mischievous’ as you are today, it would seem that someone will need to !!
 
Yes, great question dringman that’s all we need. At the moment we cannot even come up with a dead cert answer on the original question.                 This is a dead cert answer:   Residents of UK cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle in UK and Residents in Spain, cannot drive a foreign register vehicle. Simple as that.
 
DVLA have supposedly told spiderman to go to the library. That’s beyond belief.   If you don’t ask the right person it is reasonable for that person to, either say they don't know, or if they are trying to be helpful,  suggest where you might get the answer.   
 
DVLC deal with Registration of vehicles and issue of DL’s etc., (ask them about that and you will get an answer). They do deal  with who can and cannot do other things.
 
How can a European Directive have anything to do with the enforcement of UK road traffic laws?   What has a Directive got to do with who can drive in UK ?
 
johnzx says he is ‘’almost certain’’ ‘. No disrespect meant, but where is the clear legal evidence?  If you go to the police station and ask you will be given the answer.     However, to save you the effort, I have just called a person working that dept and they say, yes you must notify the change (as I had thought).
 
Then I asked. Then there is the situation of those who believe they are non UK residents, probably because they are on the foreign register, have a padron and all the rest. But who is the judge and jury of that? (Probably not HMRC, but they seem to have a lot to say about it). No answer.                     If a EU national has registered on the EU Citizen’s Register, or they have spent 183 days or more in Spain, they are Resident and they are Tax Resident too.      Thus they can drive a Spanish Reg vehicle to and in the UK for a visit.
 
So is it a case off: Mrspiderman you are charged under the law of the Geneva convention of illegally driving bla bla bla. And also your Spain residence is invalid under the law of the Northern Ireland peace agreement.            Potblack,  why are you trying to confuse the question ?   Spiderman just wants the answer, not a problem.
    
Two simple straight forward questions. How is Joe public supposed to know right from wrong?, Well with respect, you will not help them by making posts like your last one.  And remember, ignorance of a law is no defence in Spain or UK.
 

 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 23/08/2012.



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