BE HONEST...Would you stay in Spain if it wasn't for the weather?

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05 Aug 2012 12:41 by maddiemack Star rating in Grantham, Lincolnshi.... 194 posts Send private message

Well, I've been reading the latest posts regarding aspects of Spain that would definitely put alot of people off living there full-time or even part-time...ie;

*Corruption at all levels, paricularly where the housing market is concerned (biggest money maker?)

*Lack of Police support or interest in crimes committed against foreigners and Spanish

*Painfully slow judicial system

*Lack of concern/interest/help concerning overcharging of utility bills

There are many more points I could add to this list, but these seem to be the most-recurring themes.

So, taking all of the above as genuine concerns to anyone thinking of buying/renting a place in Spain for full-time or part-time living, I am asking the question to anyone that cares to answer...

'Would you stay in Spain if it wasn't for the weather?'  What if the weather in Spain was the same as the weather in the UK? If your answer is 'YES' could you please expain your reasons...because there are many folks that have changed/are thinking of changing their minds when it comes to spending more than a couple of weeks' holiday time in Spain at the moment. 

Thank you

 

 



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05 Aug 2012 13:21 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

Let's consider the weather. Many people cannot tolerate the intense humid heat of July/August. Many find the winter too cold in poorly insulated houses, and cannot afford to heat them properly. When it does rain it is often destructive, causing floods,  mudslides, damage to property.When the wind blows from the Sahara the effect  when it rains is horrendous-brown, dirty, made worse by inadequate drainage, streaky,gets everywhere-only a pressure hose(no good in a drought area) will remove it or extensive painting(costly and not practical.)The appearance is unsightly, especially on white balustrades. Cleaning and repairng is an ongoing chore, not easy when you get old and infirm. Now, when you go on holiday to a relative's villa or hotel, everything is done for you-you're not going to worry about cleaning, all you want to do is enjoy the lovely sun. This is why so many people on holiday think it would be nice to live here. The only months that are tolerable are May. June, September and October.

The answer to your question is, for me, its not the weather that's keeping me here, its the fact that I would have to virtually give my house away in order to go back to the UK. All the things you mention are true. Whatever people say, the quality of life is not that good, some things are cheaper, but generally not enough to say it is much cheaper than UK-electricity bills are much dearer.Many things are not regulated, therefore you won't get justice. It is stressful and frustrating in many aspects. The main thing is that many do not give any thought to what they will do when they are older or affected by bad health-that's when they decide to go back, and it's often too late then. The way Spain. is going, only those on huge pensions will be able to live here. There will always be the rose glasses brigade with Stepford wives grins who will stay here no matter how bad it gets, but there are many more who rue the day they decided to live here.





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05 Aug 2012 13:55 by moggy Star rating. 58 posts Send private message

Well in reply to the posting from Camposol all I can say is you sound very unhappy with your life in Spain.We to live on Camposol and have done for the last 7 years,I will not mention all the problems we have here because that has been done to death.But we have never regreted our move to Spain and our life here.

And yes we would stay here regardless of the weather,yes its bloody cold in the winter and the heat at the moment is excessive,but so what is it any better in England rain I believe at the moment.

We have never enough hours in the day to do what we want to do,I am not a Stepford wife and we are not rich by any standard.But we took early retirement to live here in England we would have to work just to manage.So I am sorry if Spain and Camposol has not worked for you,it has for us so please dont class us all the same.And as forthe fall in house prices is that not the same in england surely that is a world wide problem and not just here.No one knows how there lifes are going to change wether it is down to health or money.

So YES at the moment we are very happy to stay in Spain.





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05 Aug 2012 13:56 by Jimbofinn Star rating in Chiclana De La Front.... 203 posts Send private message

Jimbofinn´s avatar

I'll answer your question with a direct YES and an emphatic yes at that.

As for the points you made I'll answer them in the following manner and I will assume that you are a resident in the UK:

1.  Are you trying to tell us that there is no corruption in the UK.  Bear in mind that the housing market is virtually non existant in Spain now and many of the cowboys are now facing corruption charges with the courts beginning to now favour litigants complaints.

2.  Have you tried reporting a crime to the police i.e burglary/theft/criminal damage etc. (see what response you get)

3.  A slow judicial system is also prevalent in the UK with the criminal underclass being treated with kid gloves (you don't see that here in Spain). Read the "police Inspector blog" if you want a serving police officers' view of how things really are there.

4.  No different in the UK than here in Spain.

Like you I could go on with the negative side of things in either of the two countries - or for that matter any country.



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05 Aug 2012 14:32 by dalmata Star rating. 22 posts Send private message

I agree with Jimofinn to suggest that only Spain has problems with corruption, poor call centre service, a failing justice system etc. etc. is in my view disingenous. The problems referred to in the original post apply to every country I have ever visited and,  the UK is not a paragon of virtue,in terms of efficiency, honest politicians & bankers etc.

To answer the question "Would we stay in Spain if it wasn't for the weather" YES we would, we have been here 2 years and in spite of frustrations (similar to the UK in terms of utilities and dealing with officialdom etc) we love Spain for all sorts of reasons, of course  the weather is a factor (it helps our physical and mental health to be in a warm sunny climate) but it is not the most important one for us, there are plenty of countries with nice weather but Spain has a charm for us  that puts it at the top of the list for places to live for us.

I agree that when choosing an ex-pat life one must consider health care and changing needs as one gets older but to be honest that should be part of any intelligent person's planning and strategy when moving from their country of origen and it isn't Spain's fault of people don't plan their move properly,. That isn't to say I don't have sympathy for people whose dreams have turned to dust - there are some vary sad cases,but at the end of the day  the responsiblity for our own wellbeing lies with ourselves.

I am heartily sick of the Spain bashing that is so popluar in the UK  and UK media at the moment and it seems to me that it is classic case of transference of disowned problems  i.e. if you don't like something about yourself or your own country  but don't want to admit it, start picking faults with someone else or another country.





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05 Aug 2012 14:50 by iain4702 Star rating in East Lothian & Lo.... 42 posts Send private message

Good one dalmata could not agree more.We have had a house in Spain for 6/7 years and love the plave with no regrets.

Iain





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05 Aug 2012 14:52 by cazntony Star rating in Newark, UK and Mora .... 19 posts Send private message

cazntony´s avatar

 I have lived in Spain (Catalunya) for just over one year after owning property here for four years previous.

My husband is an early retiree.  

I love the area and my house.

The people in the villiage have been very friendly and welcoming.

I speak a little spanish and some people speak a little English.

I have had spanish people help me with telephone calls and and also with dealing with the ajuntament.

When i was burgled whilst i was in England a neighbour reported and the police came straight away and took photos and finger prints.  They appared to take it seriously even though there is no expectation of getting my goods back. In England I was mugged and had to give a report over the phone and an officer visited me three days later. 

The weather is definately bonus (most of the time) but it is not the only reason to live here. 

I am aware i am lucky to have bought my house with profits from another house sale and do not worry about the diving value as i do not plan to sell yet.  I may worry about that one later. 

Again i have current medical cover from the uk and by time it runs out there is only a short time before my husband becomes a uk pensioner so therefore will have medical cover as his dependent.  

I guess in conclusion it is great to live in Spain as people with our own income and no need for employment or financial assisance

 

Caz





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05 Aug 2012 15:03 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

Camposol is spot on as always.

I have only enjoyed holidays in Spain and have never wished to live there, but unfortunately Spain is like the UK in decline, but more so, worse in every respect. So I no longer consider holidaying there, sad but true.

As for Spain bashing????? what possible motive could anyone have????? a very strange concept..... just a silly invention.

Just give good information and tell it like it is........keep it up Camposol.

How anyone can say the weather is not the main attraction is a puzzle.

The sunshine is indeed healthy and uplifting, we all like it, even those of us that frizzle and burn if we get too much.

Those with sense and means come to the UK and France to avoid the extremes and will always do so, just as the reverse is true.

Who genuinely wants to suffer the extremes - no one - and even the Spanish will one day get insulated houses - one day.

The UK has more insulated houses but it is still ongoing with much that is sub-standard.

There is a great need to seek improvement wherever you choose or are forced to live.

Good luck to all, wherever.

Regards

Norman

 



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05 Aug 2012 15:20 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

 Big fat yes.   I love Spain, but I do think that being able to speak Spanish makes it a very different experience.  I am worried for Spain, but I never ever have regretted my move and in fact I am thinking of buying a bigger house now that prices are so low.  I love the sun, but I agree that the weather is only a tiny part of the attraction.   I love the food, the wine, the slower lifestyle.  I love the football and the tennis - in which they are second to none.  I love the language, and try every day to get better at it.

I know that people used to argue on here that Spain is SO corrupt and the UK so squeaky clean in spite of evidence to the contrary.  But now with what we have learned about the behaviour of our banks - I just don't understand how anyone can still take the moral high ground.  Astonishing.   What is really evident is that this site has turned from an informative medium to get info on Spain to a Spain bashing Daily Mail type entity.  Of course Spain is down - but so were Argentina and Mexico not so very long ago and both are now booming.   So hopefully it will rise again - but what it doesn't need is expats kicking it in the teeth and!!   Go home if life is so bad and leave Spain to the people who are here because they want to be here.  





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05 Aug 2012 15:27 by moggy Star rating. 58 posts Send private message

Sorry Norman,how can Camposol be spot on,please explain to me which bit of it is good information,the posting is his opinion and how his life in Spain has turned out.For what ever reason he is not happy with the choice he has made and it is obvious from the following postings other people are happy with their live in Spain.

We are all different and  our lives are what we make of it,its just a shame some people are happy then others.

 


This message was last edited by moggy on 05/08/2012.



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05 Aug 2012 15:55 by maddiemack Star rating in Grantham, Lincolnshi.... 194 posts Send private message

Some good points made.  Of course, wherever you live, how you feel about it depends on the experiences you have.  As metioned, every country has its good and not so good points.  We have only ever had good experiences in Spain and in the UK.  I don't know whether this is more by good luck or because we are good at planning. It is certainly heartening to know it's not just the weather that keeps some folks in Spain!

I do feel for you Campasol and for others in the same position as yourself.  Sometimes, people are landed with a deal they don't want however well-thought-out the plans were that brought them to it.  Is there really nothing you can do to get yourself back to the UK?  I'm guessing it's not so much the loss you'll make on your property that stops you leaving, but rather the fact that it can't be sold in the present financial climate. We were lucky to sell our Spanish home before the downturn took hold but, unlike friends of ours who were lucky enough to sell their place at the same time, it wouldn't have mattered too much to us if we hadn't sold.  We would have been happy to keep it for holiday use. BTW, cazntony, our place was in Catalunya, too.  You're right, it is a most beautiful area!

Is there any possibility that you could rent your place out, Campasol? If you have a mortgage, you need only collect enough each month to pay it. Of course, finding a good long-term tenant is the key here...not an easy task.  Would it matter that you make a loss if you did manage to find a buyer?  As has been pointed out, property in the UK has also taken a down-turn.  The place we rent out here has 'lost' 25% off the price we paid for it but it doesn't matter to us because we would put any cash obtained from a sale into another property, anyway.  The one thing that the UK is good at (if you want to call it 'good') is housing people that have nowhere to live and providing them with the means to stay there.  I can't imagine that an (ex?) UK citizen would find it too difficult to be provided with this option? 

Please don't think I'm having a go at anyone (or any country) here.  I'm just looking for opinions to help us make some decisions....so, keep them coming...and thanks!

 


This message was last edited by maddiemack on 05/08/2012.

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05 Aug 2012 16:36 by Julianx Star rating in Spain. 64 posts Send private message

Spot on Norman,

 You just stay away from  Spain (please), and maybe, as you don't like and don't want to come here,  you could stop running the country down too !

 

Thanks





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05 Aug 2012 17:32 by wend691 Star rating in Lincoln & Rojales (C.... 179 posts Send private message

Its so refreshing to read positive threads from fellow EOS people (the negativity on here can be quite tiresome sometimes - and thats when I tend to not bother with EOS for a while!!). Of course the comments / thoughts of one poster will be very different to those of another, depending on their individual, personal circumstances, expectations and experiences. It doesn't mean that one person is right and another is wrong.

Equally the case, it is evident that some people seem to do nothing but bemoan Spain (yawn) .... its not all fantastic in UK either (or probably any other European country)!!! As a general comment (which is off-thread, soz), having personal experience of the british civil justice system (12 years of litigation against a proven defrauder, where a positive judgement was made but I still lost a significant amount of money as the person wangled out of paying up), I can say its not only the Spanish legal system that has lessons to learn and needs to improve to support the innocent and take action against those guilty as charged.

When my husband and I purchased our place in Spain, the decision was not taken lightly or without extensive research and a number of visits to different areas before taking the plunge (the weather was not the only factor). Initially our intentions had been to move over to Spain on a permanent basis, but after alot of discussion and 'what ifs' scenarios, decided against taking the risk and leaving good / stable jobs for uncertainty. If we had been at retirement age, we would probably have sold up in UK and moved across. Must say though, if our personal circumstances were different, we would be there now.

Sooooooo, good luck to those people who are living a good life in Spain (even during these challenging times in Europe - not just Spain) ... I suspect alot of them have far better things to do than join in on threads on EOS!!!

 





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05 Aug 2012 19:32 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

not too long ago we had one ex-pat member, independently housed off urbanisation, who worked on properties, sometimes on Camposol who sympathised with the Camposol and described the place as the absolute pits.

so yes indeed, opinions can differ and expectations vary, in truth properties on the same urb can be somewhat different, it is good to read that some are content with whatever it is they have got and if the weather is paramount then why leave it?

my intention was only ever to buy a holiday apartment on a closed holiday complex, not to join a sort of council house estate of workers and dog owners with their scrap cars etc. I was astonished to be offered the other at ultimate luxury prices.

whilst the market has and is suffering here in the UK it is not disasterous and far too high for ex-pats to return to I guess.

Opinions are of no value unless they are persuaders to assist with your objective.

Unfortunately people who are stuck over there may not be eligible for rent assistance as here so they need sympathy not silly condemnation.

Regards

Norman

 



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05 Aug 2012 19:42 by bobaol Star rating. 2256 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

 Let's consider the weather. Many people cannot tolerate the intense humid heat of July/August. Many find the winter too cold in poorly insulated houses, and cannot afford to heat them properly.

So why move here, then?  Compared to Florida, this is heaven.  Compared to Cyprus it's about the same.  My house is nice and comfy in the winter, thank you.  A half hour blast from the aircon warms it up nicely unlike UK where the central heating is on from October to (this year) July.  

When it does rain it is often destructive, causing floods,  mudslides, damage to property.When the wind blows from the Sahara the effect  when it rains is horrendous-brown, dirty, made worse by inadequate drainage, streaky,gets everywhere-only a pressure hose(no good in a drought area) will remove it or extensive painting(costly and not practical.)The appearance is unsightly, especially on white balustrades. Cleaning and repairng is an ongoing chore, not easy when you get old and infirm.

When I was reading this, the news on telly was showing flash flooding in the Borders region causing extreme damage.  Have you forgotten the 11,000 homes affected by floods in UK since October?  Drought area?  Remind me which country has had "drought" conditions and a hose pipe ban?  Tornadoes, trees falling, motorways closed due to flooding.  Where was that again?  Is cleaning and repairing when you are old and infirm a lot easier in UK?

Now, when you go on holiday to a relative's villa or hotel, everything is done for you-you're not going to worry about cleaning, all you want to do is enjoy the lovely sun. This is why so many people on holiday think it would be nice to live here. The only months that are tolerable are May. June, September and October.

No, they're not. January, March, April, May, June, September, October, November and December are wonderful.  Only February gets a bit cold, only July and August can be hot and uncomfortable.  If it's so bad in July and August, why are they the peak months for tourists who think it is lovely here?

The answer to your question is, for me, its not the weather that's keeping me here, its the fact that I would have to virtually give my house away in order to go back to the UK. All the things you mention are true. Whatever people say, the quality of life is not that good, some things are cheaper, but generally not enough to say it is much cheaper than UK-electricity bills are much dearer.

Sorry but quality of life is very good here, thank you very much.  day to day living is far cheaper.  You mention electricity but forget to mention the £1500 a year community charge, the £200 or so car tax, the water charges being only a third here that they are in UK.  The fact that, when you add on your gas bills to the electric, it will cost you more per month in the UK.  (my average electricity is about 80 euros going up to 100 in Feb and Jul/Aug due to the aircon.  That's about £64 to £80 a month - UK electric was about £45 a month but so was gas so that makes it £90 or about £72 a month.  Hardly worth the comment that electricity bills are much dearer)

Many things are not regulated, therefore you won't get justice. It is stressful and frustrating in many aspects. The main thing is that many do not give any thought to what they will do when they are older or affected by bad health-that's when they decide to go back, and it's often too late then. The way Spain. is going, only those on huge pensions will be able to live here. There will always be the rose glasses brigade with Stepford wives grins who will stay here no matter how bad it gets, but there are many more who rue the day they decided to live here

Not many people round me are "ruing the day they decided to live here".  Justice system in UK can be just as bad.  Con artists are everywhere.

I feel something must have gone drastically wrong for you somewhere along the line.  I've said it before, if I felt the way you do I would have upped sticks and gone a long time ago.  It must be dreadful living in a place you obviously hate so much.  I, personally, like both countries.  UK has a lot going for it, it's just for some reasons (as explained) I would much, much rather be here.  To insult people who like it here by calling them the rose glasses brigade is possibly typical of something who views the UK with the same rose-tinted ones.  

 

 

 


This message was last edited by bobaol on 05/08/2012.



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05 Aug 2012 19:55 by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

No , I'm only here for the weather. If it was the same here as the UK , I wouldn't have come.It is a bit oppressive in july/august but the other 10 months make up for it. Yes I can speak spanish & no the corruption doesn't really bother me .

Talking of rain ,I'd like to see some. Last september 1st was the last time it rained worth talking about.



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05 Aug 2012 20:11 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4509 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

'Would you stay in Spain if it wasn't for the weather?'

Some interesting, if unsurprising, views here. Having been resident in Spain for about 15 years and become very settled and accustomed to a certain lifestyle, I don't find it quite as simple to answer that question as some may do, but if you had asked "if the weather in the UK was the same as in Spain, would you have ever moved here?" the answer would almost certainly have been, No. It probably wasn't the only thing that brought us here, but if the weather was as sh1tty as the UK's, we probably wouldn't have bothered. 



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05 Aug 2012 20:57 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 772 posts Send private message

A definate YES from me as well.

Originally the weather was the main reason for the move but have to admit that I do often pray for some of the "wet" stuff now. Particularly over the last 14 months. 

Reasons... slower pace of life, apart from the E15 roads are virtually traffic free and extremely friendly and helpful Spanish friends and neighbours. Plus financially money definately goes far further.





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05 Aug 2012 21:36 by ojosazul88 Star rating. 171 posts Send private message

 "What is really evident is that this site has turned from an informative medium to get info on Spain to a Spain bashing Daily Mail type entity." 

Spot on and accurate comment. I suspect most of those whingeing and bashing Spain on here cannot even speak Spanish and have not integrated. Imagine living in England in a narrow minded ghetto environment not able to speak hardly any English, do you think you would want to stay for long? Of course things are tough in Spain, some of the hardest economic times in many generations.  Everyone has individual circumstances so some need to work , some dont but Spain does still offer many positives for all ages, where is this Utopia that you bashers are all seeking?





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05 Aug 2012 23:56 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Dear All,

Living in the south-east, we may not be directly in the golf stream and being somewhat light in complexion I cannot take too much, but I am often surprised that our harvests come in at all given the weather we get. The wonderful sun when it comes is often accompanied by oppresive humidity. Spain may not be Utopia but I am sure it is better than this weatherwise - no question.

If it is the sun you want - enjoy, though I suppose it is not unique to Spain.

However it is sad to hear of people's unhappiness with their choices and decisions.

Good luck and enjoy

Norman

 



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