Endesa - Are they overcharging everyone in Spain?

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04 Aug 2012 20:58 by keatsfan Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

 Hello all - I have been living a bit south of Barcelona for just over a year. When we arrived, our landlord aranged a contract for us with Endesa (electricity) and Sorea (water). The owner also owns the house next door, which we share a wall with.

We are quite friendly with our neighbor and help each other when necessary. We were comparing bills at the end of last year, as we thought our bills from Endesa were quite high. We are two adults in a large, not so well insulated house, so we thought maybe the heating in the house was not so efficient. It turns out that the neighbor was being charged even more, though he is only one person and NEVER uses the heat (he has a fireplace). Aside from the fireplace the two houses are identical.

So now it gets interesting... it turns out that Endesa had been sending the wrong bills... we were receiving our neighbors and vice versa. Seems like it would be easy to fix, no? Endesa refunded us all of the money that we had originally paid, and rebilled us at the higher rate and then sent us a bill saying we still owed 1200 Euros. OK - If we used it, I am willing to pay for it. But I still doubt if the meter is working correctly. But that is a separate issue that we are pursuing.

Our neighbor, however, had money seized from his account, without getting new or correct invoices. And he has paid nearly 2000 Euros too much. Endesa REFUSES to even consider refunding him, because we did not report the problem in 2011. They say that "by law" they do not have to refund anything that happened in 2011, after January 1st... To me, this is an astonishing statement and I cannot believe it to be true. But our landlord is a wealthy property owner (Spanish) and he accompaied us to Endesa and this is what they told him. Does anyone know if this could possibly be true? I have only heard bad things about Endesa and apparently, Aznar privatized the company while he was PM, and became CEO after his term ended... corruption???

On top of all of this, we do NOT receive invoices in the mail, and Endesa just TAKES money out of my account every two months. The online system does not work and I feel like I am living in the 3rd world. We have gone into the Endesa Barcelona offices 5 times, and get the same answers. And we still can't seem to get an invoice in the mail.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

Keatsfan

 

PS - Our monthly bills are approx 250Euros/month, and during the Summer, we only use the lights (in the rooms we are in), kitchen/TV room/Home office

 

 

 

 


This message was last edited by keatsfan on 04/08/2012.



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04 Aug 2012 21:58 by Marksfish Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 2572 posts Send private message

Marksfish´s avatar

We get our Endesa bill every month to our address in the UK. One month it is estimated and the next the meter is read. Not sure about others on our complex, but until now have been pretty happy with them.

Mark





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10 Aug 2012 16:45 by keatsfan Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

 As we are paying 250-400 Euros/month, with light usage I also wonder if we are on the wrong tariff. It seems to "low" for the house we live in, which is a 3BR Villa with pool. I have tried to go through the Endesa site, but it is quite confusing. 

Are there many different tariffs/plans available? Would appreciate it if someone could provide a link to this, as I must be looking at the wrong place on the Endesa site.

Thanks,

keatsfan





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10 Aug 2012 17:38 by nigel188 Star rating in Estepona. 625 posts Send private message

 Hi There

Website which can translated into english using google chrome.

http://www.endesaonline.es/ES/Hogares/teguia/asesoramientotarifas/tarifas_electricas/tarifas/index.asp

Also translation below.

 

Here are some electric rates published in the BOE June 28, 2012

Social Bond Rates

 

Rate

Term power (€ / kW / month)

Energy term € / kWh

No time discrimination

Social Bono power 
<3 kW

0.00000

0.11248

Social power bonus  

0.402318

0.089365

Social Bonus 
1 kW

1.642355

0.11248

With time-

Social power bonus 

1.642355

Tip

Valley

0.135145

0.059614

(1) to these charges in billing shall be as follows:

The corresponding energy consumption to 12.5 kWh in a month or if your average daily equivalent bill is exempted from the basic term of energy.

When the energy consumed above the daily average consumption is higher than the equivalent of 500 kWh in a month, to the energy used above that amount are subject to a surcharge of € 0.02839 / kWh consumed in excess.

For this, the billing must correspond to the actual readings of the meter.

(2) These rates are not application any time discrimination supplement.

TUR Electricity Rate

 

Rate

Term power (€ / kW / month)

Energy term € / kWh

No time discrimination

Rate TUR

1.824432

0.149198

With time-

Rate TUR

1.824432

Tip

Valley

0.180838

0.067940

Rates for customers with contracted power> 10 kW or AT

If this is your case, you can not welcome you to the TUR. You must request a Free Market offer and choose a retailer . Until you do you apply these rates higher than the TUR (Pursuant to transitional provision IV and Article 21 of the Order ITC/1659/2009 of June 22 and June 28, 2012 Resolution )

 

Rate TUR + 20% surcharge

Term power (€ / kW / month)

Energy term € / kWh

No time discrimination

3.0.1 Rate

2.189319

0.1790376

With time-

3.0.1 Rate DH

2.189319

Tip

Valley

0.1790376

0.1790376

Rates for contracted power supplies from 15 kW or AT

If this is your case, you can not welcome you to the TUR. You must request a Free Market offer and choose a retailer . Until you do you apply these rates higher than the TUR (Pursuant to transitional provision IV and Article 21 of the order of 22 June ITC/1659/2009 and  Resolution June 28, 2012 ).

Rate TUR + 20% surcharge

Term power (€ / kW / month)

Energy term € / kWh

3.0.2 General Rate power> 15kW

2.189319

Tip

Flat

Valley

0.1790376

0.1790376

0.1790376

 

Hope this helps.

 



_______________________

Nigel




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10 Aug 2012 21:43 by TamaraEssex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

TamaraEssex´s avatar

 Hi Keatsfan -

I don't think you're alone, and I'm a bit surprised you haven't been flooded with replies agreeing that Endesa are ripping you off!

That really does seem high for monthly electricity.  My ex was always having huge rows with Endesa, who kept estimating his usage per month at approximately what he was using in nine or ten months, AND taking the money, AND never refunding what they owed.  In the end he got a lot of help from the Oficina de Consumadores in his local town (a bit like the CAB in the UK).

Ask at your local library where the Oficina de Consumadores is (it's probably either in or adjacent to the library) and they should be able to help.  They are well used to dealing with Endesa and probably have a hotline straight to the complaints desk!

Good luck with it -

Tamara



_______________________

 Blog about settling into a village house in the Axarquía. http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/tamara.aspx




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11 Aug 2012 17:46 by keatsfan Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

 Thanks for the replies so far!

It appears that we have contracted the following:

Producto: Tarfia Decide

Potencias contratadas: 14.49 kW

Tarifa de acceso: 2.1A

-----------

Consumo Total:   1902 kWh

Facturation Del Consumo               1.901 kWh x 0.151174 Eur/kWh             287.38

Descuentos                                        (6.00) % x      287.38                                   17.24

Potencia                                              14.49 kW   x    41    x     0.08874   EUR/kW  y dia

Impto  Electricidad                             322.86 EUR   x  1.05113   x    4.864   %

Subtotal + IVA                                                                                                                 401.32 Eur 

---------

Any insight into whether we should be on a different tariff would be welcome. We seem to fluctuate between 1500 kWh and 2500 kWh.

Also looking at Iberdrola and another provider on Monday.

-keatsfan





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31 Oct 2012 17:04 by pegeen Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

  Here is an interesting experience for everyone to contemplate.As a non resident here in Spain I frequently return to the UK for 2-3 months at a time.

During my last absence, of 3 months,on the day of my departure I took a meter reading and again on my return to find that although I had switched everything off at the mains the meter (a digital one) had clocked up 215 units!!

Their reading was for 366 units for just one month!

Since my return of just over a month I have checked the meter . The usage has been 117 units. I reported this to Endesa suggesting the meter must be faulty.They won't come on the grounds that this isn't sufficient extra usage to warrant someone to come and check the meter.

I have asked an electrician to check if there is any wiring from next door that might be connected to my meter. Nothing!! Anyone have any idea how this is possible?





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01 Nov 2012 17:09 by cbrammeld Star rating. 172 posts Send private message

 I always take photos of water and electric readings. Iberdrola guesses meter reading every second month and assumes it will be as high as last years plus their meter readers have dyslexic tendancies. After almost 5 weeks of use over the summer I have still used less than their June guess. I flick the main rcd/mcb at the fuse box when I leave - is that the right way to do it?

Meter is still mechanical in communal cupboard of about 20 and readings compared at end/start of visits have not changed. I remember a post on here stating someone had tapped in to the communal lighting circuit and enjoyed almost free electric.

You could be having an extra charge of over 200 euros a year, I would think that exceeds the tolerance allowed on the meter, complain again to Endesa.





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01 Nov 2012 21:09 by pegeen Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

 Thanks for your reply cbrammeld.

Taking a photograph sounds like a good suggestion as the date should then be recorded on the picture. Next time I go back to the UK I will do that. I don't know what the right way is but I switch off everything in the fuse box as well as unplugging all my appliances.

I have been thinking about changing providers but this could take up to six weeks. I don't want to do this in the middle of going away.

Another strange thing has happened in the last couple of days. while I was out, my neighbours tell me, a man from Endesa knocked on everyone's door to say that the electricity was due to go up at the beginning of next year.

This seems very unbusiness like! In fact we've already had an increase this year. 

I would hope that they will inform us of this increase with the next bill.

As a matter of interest Facua   http://www.facua.org/   the consumer organisation are collecting signatures on their website to send to the government protesting against the Endesa price hikes.





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14 Sep 2013 19:35 by PandJ Star rating. 40 posts Send private message

My experience of Endesa is pretty grim also, since 2007 we have been billed for our neighbours electricity usage and as they are full time residents and we are holiday owners it makes it hard to swallow. In the last month I have managed to get
tHis sorted so we are getting the flight bill but hopes of getting my money back for the overpayments are fading fast. If anyone has any good ideas they would be most welcome.
Thanks






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14 Sep 2013 20:46 by nigel188 Star rating in Estepona. 625 posts Send private message

Hi There

Maybe this Company can assist you or refer you to someone who can. 

http://www.myelectricsinspain.com/

I found this website on another forum. http://www.defensordelcliente.endesa.es/defcl/index.jsf  don't know if still works.

Also in Estepona we have a lady called Francina who has an office in the Tourist Centre who assists Foreign Residents with Utility Problems Etc. Maybe you have something similar in the area you stay in.

Good Luck

Regards

 

 

 

 


This message was last edited by nigel188 on 14/09/2013.


This message was last edited by nigel188 on 14/09/2013.

_______________________

Nigel




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14 Sep 2013 21:30 by pegeen Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

Nigel http://www.myelectricsinspain.com/ charge for their services. For example 35 € for paying your electric bill. I would be interested to know from genuine EOS subscribers how they have been helped by these people.





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15 Sep 2013 08:45 by elaineG Star rating in Spain . 409 posts Send private message

Every establishment in Spain has complaint forms.  They consist of three pages of sensitized paper. 

Complete the form, get the establishment to sign and then give them the copy marked (in small print down the long inside edge). Retain your copy and the Consumers' Office copy.  If after 2 weeks you have not had satisfaction, take the consumer’s office copy to that office (dept of town hall) they will chase the complaint and progress it up-wards if necessary.

 

In most circumstances the establishment resolves the problem before they are put to a lot of unnecessary paperwork.

If the establishment say they do not have complaint forms, call the LOCAL POLICE  (not Guardia or National).  They should attend, issue an on the spot fine and close the establishment.

NB  Complaining to us here, or writing to the English language newspapers, does not resolve the problem.





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15 Sep 2013 09:20 by Fartharder Star rating in Loriguilla.. 172 posts Send private message

Fartharder´s avatar

It sounds like Endesa are using the same meters as airport taxi drivers.

I'm with Iberdrola and to me it seems like the best of a bad deal. Electricity is an astonishing rip-off in Spain no matter who you are contracted to. Amazing in a country with so much solar and wind power but then again, were probably all paying for the installation of all this renewable energy.





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15 Sep 2013 09:37 by elaineG Star rating in Spain . 409 posts Send private message

Been a long time since I had an electricity bill in UK.

I do not feel that the  6 times a year bill in Spain is all that bad.

Country € per kWh Electricity   Country € per kWh Electricity
Austria 0.20147   Italy 0.2314
Belgium 0.22566   Latvia 0.13942
Bulgaria 0.08795   Lithuania 0.1255
Croatia 0.11325   Luxembourg 0.16736
Cyprus 0.27249   Malta 0.16986
Czech Republic 0.15071   Netherlands 0.19323
Denmark 0.29525   Poland 0.14618
Estonia 0.11066   Portugal 0.2031
Finland 0.15718   Romania 0.10695
France 0.14466   Slovakia 0.17322
Germany 0.26527   Slovenia 0.15659
Greece 0.14073   Spain 0.18926
Hungary 0.15613   Sweden 0.20361
Ireland 0.22518   United Kingdom 0.17078




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15 Sep 2013 10:57 by Fartharder Star rating in Loriguilla.. 172 posts Send private message

Fartharder´s avatar

So Spain is the 11th most expensive out of 28 countries, and more expensive than the UK. It's not really that cheap.

The extras don't help either, like having to pay so much for the privilage of a higher KW limit so you don't have your electric tripping off because you're cooking on the hob, using the oven and someone is having a shower at the same time. It seems unfair that the electricity company says to you 'so everything in your house is powered by electric and your bills are going to be high. We're going to add to that by charging you the earth for the highest contract which you need to use all of these appliances'.

Even natural gas (wherever has it) seems to be an expensive deal too. My mother-in-law pays over double for the privilage of having gas in her home than she pays  in consumption after paying contracts and meter rental etc.





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15 Sep 2013 14:59 by pegeen Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

Hi Nigel, I looked into the website you posted http://www.defensordelcliente.endesa.es/defcl/index.jsf . Itappears to be active. Where did you get it from. I would be interested in what other people's experience is with this ombudsman. Thank you.





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15 Sep 2013 15:57 by nigel188 Star rating in Estepona. 625 posts Send private message

Hi  Pegeen

I found it on this Forum ,hope it helps. Just scroll down the page to see all the users comments.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9710929

Good Luck



_______________________

Nigel




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15 Sep 2013 21:02 by pegeen Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

Many thanks Nigel.Most helpful Pegeen





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23 Sep 2013 15:11 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9327 posts Send private message


_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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