Community charges..... non-payers....direct action?

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19 Mar 2008 18:44 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8578 posts Send private message

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To regional colleges first, but copy the complain to the National Council.
I would be pleased to represent EOS members willing to have English information of  this Council.

How many of you would be interested?

Best Semana Santa!

Maria

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19 Mar 2008 18:49 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 3871 posts Send private message

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I'll start us off then. One!

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20 Mar 2008 13:46 by Karensun Star rating in Orihuela Costa. 1476 posts Send private message

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Me too Maria.

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20 Mar 2008 16:35 by sandra Star rating in . 771 posts Send private message

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And me,Maria.

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01 Apr 2008 15:11 by promedia Star rating in Cheshire/Riviera del.... 126 posts Send private message

Thought I would give you an update, as i started the non-payers thread some months ago.

Our community has 60 apts and i'm pleased to say that our debtors list has dropped dramatically for the first time in 4 years.

We will announce at our agm that we have recovered over 30Kof the 50k outstanding in debts this year, leaving us with some stragglers on payment plans, 1 owner that the administrator thinks has died and 1 owner with a long term renter in their apartment.

We still have some hope of getting this money as the renter is getting so much flack to put pressure on the owner to pay up, especially when they get the next letter, informing them that all community services to their apartment are to be terminated...we'll start with the TV links and see what develops from there........

That will start them complaining to the owner who takes the rent and they believe their water will also be turned off, as all their water is paid for by the community, they are reguarly the only people living (on the second floor) in their portal outside the school holidays, so if their lift also happens to pack up they have been made fully aware aware there are no funds available to repair it, because the owners are not paying the community fees......

Just another couple of tips to keep the pressure on..

We installed glass fronted noticeboards by the car park lift entrance in every stairwell on the community. In these we reguarly update and have the name and shame them sheet, listing the current amount outstanding and the current situation which apeases the other residents, ie 30 day court letters been sent, interest and legal charges added....awaiting 60 day confirmation of embargo against selling the property being put in place, further interest and charges applied.....application issued and being processed for the sale and auction of the property by the courts...... phrases like this have scared the debtors into paying and everyone realises that the community are not prepared to be messed about. nobody likes to be named and shamed and certainly they dont want friends and relatives seeing their names in RED.

One thing that we discovered is that a lot of the addresses, phone nos and cemail addresses the administrator had for the overseas owners were wrong and correspondence and community bills were being returned gone away and just re-posted to the spanish apt which may or may not have a letterbox. So we created an emergency contact data sheet for the presidente and focussed on getting details from other residents, friends and renters for any contact details we could lay our hands on, this worked and when we sent the correspondence to the new addresses or phoned them up, we got success.

The community also implemented a prompt payment discount for all owners and 11K euro's extra has gone into the community funds through late payment surcharges.

We are now down to 2 out of 60 that we going to have a problem with, so we'll deal with that through the courts and sell their homes, none of us can understand why somone would spend 300K on an apt and then lose it all for not paying the community fees. 

anyway thanks for your ideas and  help with all the ideas and support




This message was last edited by promedia on 4/1/2008.

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01 Apr 2008 16:28 by Marksfish Star rating in Sandy, Bedfordshire/.... 2413 posts Send private message

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Well done, that is some progress . Unfortunately the biggest debtor on our community is the builder who still owns several properties . They seem to make a 50% payment of the fees when they become due and it seems they divvy up when sold!

Mark



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01 Apr 2008 22:14 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8578 posts Send private message

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Congrats promedia. Keep moving ahead!

Maria



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19 Apr 2008 20:09 by Cioffi1 Star rating in London & Calahonda . 213 posts Send private message

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I have no complaints about our community and according to the minutes of the last AGM there was only one non paying owner (with a Spanish name!) When we bought our apartment our lawyer set up the payment of our fees and we get a 20% discount for paying by direct debit. So, touch wood, all is well. A month after we bought we had a problem with a damp wall that was caused by a leaking tap outside our apartment - the people who look after our property went to the Gestoria and the leak was fixed and the repair to the wall made within two weeks. When we went out in February we were pleased to see that all the external areas to the apartments had been painted, including our terrace and the whole place looked great. The painter were doing the block behind ours in November 07 and I wondered when they'd get to us. So one year in all seems well - maybe it's because it's quite an old development?



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19 Apr 2008 20:09 by Cioffi1 Star rating in London & Calahonda . 213 posts Send private message

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I have no complaints about our community and according to the minutes of the last AGM there was only one non paying owner (with a Spanish name!) When we bought our apartment our lawyer set up the payment of our fees and we get a 20% discount for paying by direct debit. So, touch wood, all is well. A month after we bought we had a problem with a damp wall that was caused by a leaking tap outside our apartment - the people who look after our property went to the Gestoria and the leak was fixed and the repair to the wall made within two weeks. When we went out in February we were pleased to see that all the external areas to the apartments had been painted, including our terrace and the whole place looked great. The painter were doing the block behind ours in November 07 and I wondered when they'd get to us. So one year in all seems well - maybe it's because it's quite an old development?



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26 Apr 2008 10:09 by pads Star rating in costa del sol near l.... 9 posts Send private message

hi all, i also live on a community that has late payers, we also penalise and give discounts, but as always we have the same people who always pay late and we have some that owe several thousand euros each. what make my blood boil is that in  the 3 years  we have had our administartors, i have not heard of 1 single case being taken to court, and also i hear that 1 person on our community is being allowed to pay off his debt in installments, which is 4, 000 euros, why is it that he has not been taken to court, hes owed money for nearly 2 years now.

In my community it seems that if your face dont fit they pick on you on the most stupid things you can imagine , yet they let things like serious late payers go by.

ok heres a few tips that did work for late payments.

we have a community tv system and internet. so first they cut off the tv and that really hit the people who rent the apartments, so owners of those paid up swiftly and next the internet is cutting off as it is included in the community fees. maybe that will help some of your communities.

adios amigos





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26 Apr 2008 14:03 by Karensun Star rating in Orihuela Costa. 1476 posts Send private message

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Cutting off facilities to none payers is strictly against the Law..........................those owners could take YOU to Court.

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26 Apr 2008 15:05 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 8578 posts Send private message

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Oh yes, that is called in Spain a " tomarse la justicia por su mano"  ( making own justice) act. Forbidden obviously.

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26 Apr 2008 18:41 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 3871 posts Send private message

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" tomarse la justicia por su mano" = taking the law into your own hands. Translates perfectly well, Maria!

I understand that cutting off individual water supplies is wrong, but I do not understand why cutting off access to communal facilities, such as TV antenna, should be illegal, if someone is not paying for them. Just doesn't seem right. I'd do it anyway. By not paying their fees, they are already taking the law into their hands. IT IS ILLEGAL TO NOT PAY COMMUNITY FEES.



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26 Apr 2008 18:55 by morerosado Star rating in Guardamar del Segura.... 6942 posts Send private message

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As Pads said  "ok heres a few tips that did work for late payments.We have a community tv system and internet. so first they cut off the tv and that really hit the people who rent the apartments, so owners of those paid up swiftly and next the internet is cutting off as it is included in the community fees" Sounds the best idea I've heard, even though it is illegal. After all, why should non payers get away with it ?

  are



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28 Apr 2008 23:46 by morerosado Star rating in Guardamar del Segura.... 6942 posts Send private message

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Earlier in this thread Pads told us

ok heres a few tips that did work for late payments.

we have a community tv system and internet. so first they cut off the tv and that really hit the people who rent the apartments, so owners of those paid up swiftly and next the internet is cutting off as it is included in the community fees. maybe that will help some of your communities.

That prompted quite a discussion saying it's illegal (by Karen & Maria).

If you read this thread How does a Community Work? (post by Ian "promedia" on 19 Apr 2008 6:37 PM) Ian also says "...........the tennants community tv is about to be turned off and we are looking at what other community paid for services we can withdraw from the renters to get them to put pressure on the owners to pay up"



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29 Apr 2008 18:47 by Karensun Star rating in Orihuela Costa. 1476 posts Send private message

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There are a million good ideas for revenge on non-payers....................it does not make it right to use them tho ( even if you're tempted   )................and they could legally turn it back on you !!

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29 Apr 2008 19:01 by morerosado Star rating in Guardamar del Segura.... 6942 posts Send private message

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Wonder if they would turn it back on you though seeing as they're SO in the wrong in first place. Would cost them a small fortune surely. The way things are going we'll all be tempted not to pay our community fees.

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29 Apr 2008 19:24 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 3871 posts Send private message

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Some years ago, we owned the majority part of a property that was split between just 4 owners - which is the legal minimum for having a community. We didn't have one. One of the owners had some grievances with us, and was refusing to contribute towards the water (which was only metered for the whole building), the building insurance, and other minor bills. The other owners had no problem coughing up their share, after we had paid the bills, and things had been working OK without a formal, legal community being formed. We (the rest of us) felt it was simply an unnecessary extra expense and hassle to set up a legal community. But, this awkward b*tch said she wouldn't contribute until we formed a proper community, and ordered us to a meeting with her lawyer, who she wanted to set up this community (for an exorbitant fee, by the way).

The lawyer started the meeting by emphasising the legal requirement to form a community. We interrupted, asking if it was a legal requirement to pay your share of the bills. Of course, came the reply. We then informed the lawyer that her client had not contributed to any communal expenses for several years. Stern looks & whispered altercations were exchanged between lawyer and client, after which the lawyer promptly called the meeting to an end and dismissed us!

We were unable to cut off any services, but we did get the insurance company to agree that this owner would not be able to make any claim on the building insurance. She never paid anything, but it wasn't a large amount anyway, and the rest of us swallowed it without too much pain.

I believe it's illegal for the water company to cut off a water supply, even if the client hasn't paid the bill. Telephone services are a different matter. Companies apparently don't even have to give warning that they will disconnect you. So personally, I can't really see too much danger in cutting off a TV or internet connection, plus as More says, is anyone really likely to take legal action over such a thing? I'm not saying it's legal or correct, and Karen has good reason to point out the possible repurcusions. Similarly, I understand More's suggestion that "we'll all be tempted not to pay our community fees", but would never condone such action - two wrongs don't make a right, and the more people take that stance, the worse the community problems will become.

I seem to be waffling a bit now, and contradicting myself, so I'll shut up!



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29 Apr 2008 22:07 by morerosado Star rating in Guardamar del Segura.... 6942 posts Send private message

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Moi, not pay my community fees, Roberto ? Heaven forbid. Anyone got 500€  for my annual June payment ?  

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29 Apr 2008 23:05 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 3871 posts Send private message

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€500???? We pay more than double that, and we don't live in a beautiful palace like the Casa Rosado! Still, maybe now the community won't be paying for the upkeep of the Presidential Cat (retired), our fees will go down .

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