ITV show on the Costa Del Sol

Dear All,

a good post goodstitch, your own case as outlined is so Blo..y ridiculous that it should be featured, though why it should need a "brilliant" lawyer is something of a puzzle.

perhaps we need a "Spain Uncut" blog, thread or forum, where the truth can be displayed permanently and added to case by case.

techno, I believe revealed his good agent so go ahead everyone, let us have a list or feature.

surely many endorsements can only make for good business?

as you say goodstitch it has been a few days and no agent has denied my view of what a good agent should be and who he/she should be acting for and in fact who actually provides the money to pay their large commission.

perhaps we have got that straight?

Regards

Norman

Great post Goodstich.

Kathy....

To explain my quote...The Spanish system worked very simply in the past,the builder built ,applied for licence,bribed the local mayor, got the licence and all the owners recognised the system and sat back and waited, even now if a building has no licence and the price is low enough the Spanish will still buy.

Now there is so much more awareness the country has tried to clean up its act, now anything that was built illegally is being investigated and torn down,i know several Spanish families in the area that have property hidden away behind conifers and febcing who have lived in their property for years albeit totally illegal, they do not want this highlighted for obvious reasons. this was the Spanish way.

So by trying to do right,albeit too late, there are victims.

Goodstich....

The only people to whom i have doubted any logic, intelligence, or have stated have been naive is the people that this thread was originally about, the Rusty nail entrepreneurs.

Althogh again it gives a great excuse to heap blame on any agent that raises his head above the pulpit.

If we are all terrible how come i have been around spinning my web of deceit for 18 years?? maybe all the people that use me are either very lucky or can see through my tales of full rentals and endless happiness in utopia.......

A question to all............I was an agent in the UK, it is quite a strictly regulated profession on Home soil, as goodstich likes to point out,the UK legal sysyem and home buyer procedure is flawless and wrapped in the finest legal system going where no agent has any small chance of ripping anyone off,selling illegal builds or inflating prices or rental projections.............true?

Then why are UK Estate agents considered to be the most hated profession and although briefly topped by bankers, i would imagine always will  be??!

Surely no agent could rip you off there??

If they say it is bijou,you view and it's not, then it's not, surely??

Can you be convinced by a mere mortal that something your own eyes see as small is actually quite spacious???

Maybe they are using their Estate agent superpowers!?

Think about why everyone hates agents and think why?

Surely no agent has ever held you at gunpoint....even here...!

Norman...........

No sorry, can't be bothered,when you write something constructive that may help others rather than just a general whinge about life in general i may reply to one of your comments,i will treat you like an old fan i have at home,when it's whirring gets annoying, i turn it off.............

Also been away a few days, and enjoyed catching up on this thread. Got an especially good laugh out of Advisor's comment: "I suppose Spain must sometime start to take notice of how others perceive it to be in relation to many areas" Precisely why anyone should think Spain gives two hoots about what any other country thinks of it escapes me, and clearly demonstrates just how little this poster knows about Spain and the Spanish, but never mind, I'm still choking myself with laughter and hope to be off the oxygen sometime soon.

Roberto

so Spain doesn't give two hoots about being seen as the country it is now percieved to be with regards to corruption, justice etc?.

You might well be right. Greed, corruption etc,  that's the attitude that's got Spains property industry where it is today and has hurt so many Spanish as well as English and people from other nations.  I wouldn't laugh to loudly though at advisor's comment .  Unless Spain does take note, where is it' heading, and where will the recovery come from?, or do you consider that a lost cause?  I can't believe honest Spanish want their country or its people to be portrayed in this way, any more than English want to be seen as drunken louts from a nanny state?

Georgia

how many more times have I got to say I dont tarr all agents, lawyers, developers with the same brush???  My comment is an observation of some of those on this forum.  You are right though, agents all over have a terrible reputation. Now why's that I wonder........because most of them are trustworthy honest members of society??????

You do not understand the Spanish phsyche.

The vast majority of Spaniards are almost certainly completely unaware of how the outside world sees them, always have been and always will be. And they really don't care.

Honest, decent Brits may be hurt by suggestions that the entire country is populated by drunken yobs, but the Spanish would not be, because they KNOW instinctively that they are superior. This was touched on in another thread about learning foreign languages. The Spanish are particularly poor in this area, largely because they do not believe there is any real need to speak or understand anything other than Spanish. As a result, teaching of foreign languages receives (at least until now) very low priority in schools. The same is true of Britain. It's no excuse of course, but on this matter, the British are actually correct - you can get by with just English pretty much anywhere - try speaking Spanish in Delhi or Shanghai, though, and see how far you get. Nevertheless, if you've got by running a beach bar on the Costa del Sol for 40 years with only a smattering of English, why should you change now? The same may be true of the greed, corruption etc. No matter how much it galls you to think so, Spain will survive just as well (or badly) as most other European countries, and probably better than a few.  Pity we have no Icelandics on here to offer some comparisons.

Spain is not going to disappear down the plughole is it Roberto, but whether or not it survives unscathed  with it's economic downturn is another thing. It is heavily dependent on the tourism and construction sector.  Not many people buying and I'm sure that tourism is suffering  too. The cost of flying and the  appalling service given by airlines is bound to have an effect .

Dear All,

the TV show showed Brits' looking for the sun and perhaps a change of lifestyle, perhaps even a lifestyle with a more relaxed attitude to regulation and government interference, also perhaps the ability to support that lifestyle with some work, or a cheaper cost of living to stretch a pension.

It is all an attractive proposition until you discover that the relaxed attitude extends to estate agents, lawyers, developers and public officials, including notaries and judges, most especially with property purchase deposits.

One can imagine an REA coming from cold  and over-regulated UK to sunny Spain and being delighted with the sun, the system, the much higher commission and enjoying the relaxation.

Indeed I imagine the conditions have allowed many fortunes to be made over the last eighteen years.

One wonders how much of those fortunes have been boosted by forfeited deposits from unwary Brits who have not done their homework?

You know the sort of people, those that are too stupid to deserve sympathy.

We have to face it goodstitch, if Roberto is right then even the EU will have no effect.

Regards

Norman

 Anyone who thinks there is no illegal building going on and no dubious dealings going on in the Uk is dreaming--fact!!

Dear All,

isn't it true that the over-regulated UK authorities have only four years to act against illegal builds, otherwise they are safe.

Regards

Norman

Then why are UK Estate agents considered to be the most hated profession and although briefly topped by bankers, i would imagine always will  be??!

Georgia

Estate Agents have been the mosted hated profession because of there over elaberate descriptions of run down property.They used to be able to make a garden shed sound like a detached mansion.Even though this practise has been stopped in the UK there past stupidity still lingers on.They also let several people spend there money on surveys for the same property knowing that the first survey on the property was bad.When a professions get a bad name it sticks and it will not change by telling people they where fools to be taken in the first time.  

normansands

Roberto's comment on Spanish people not caring what the rest of the world thinks certainly looks true enough by the current situation. Talk about shooting itself in the foot though!  By showing the world it does respect the issues of concern, it would benifit by far the most, not least in respect and trust. 

Acapulco

you are right of course, as is the case in any country. The difference is to what degree it's considered acceptable and at what point common sense regulation steps in to keep a check on fraud, lies, deception.

Whilst I have little time for EA's anywhere, the ones in the UK are akin to the Archangel Gabriel compared to most (not ALL) in Spain.

Tish

and some of the worst agents dealing with Spain are from the UK. Why?, because they can get away with so much more wrong doing in Spain. Same old story.

Quite a lot of Estate Agents in UK, and for that matter selling properties in Spain, are Chartered Surveyors and are subject to a strict code of conduct laid down and monitored by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors  

see www.rics.org

There are of course always the odd bad one as there is with all professions but if they do not abide by the RICS code of conduct they are fined and thrown out

Dear All,

given Gillespie's figure of 1.74% UK purchases, which might be a little higher if some of us idiots had succeeded, it is still a very low figure and not enough to provide much incentive to change the system.

is Georgia or George or Joe or Fred or whatever he/she is qualified as a UK surveyor????

do surveyors exist in Spain and are UK surveyors even recognised there?

clearly there are not many opinions that the crooks days are numbered.

Regards

Norman

rowlandsbb

the 'odd' bad agent?????.  That's a bit like saying you get the odd English drunk in Spanish bars!

all credit to those agents who act in a decent way though. We know some are out there.

UK Estate Agents have been disliked historically because of the kind of work they did.

They did not sell property throughout history, only in recent times since the ordinary British public began buying.

Prior to that, Estate agents were just that, they were the agents who acted on behalf of the landowner. They collected rents and taxes, if the tenant farmer was unable to pay, they took goods and produce from them.

If there was a crop failure and the tenant couldn't pay, the Estate Agents would be required to organise the eviction of the tenant farmer. Obviously, before the industrial revolution, most people worked on the land and therefore had unpleasant dealings with the Estate Agent as they were the people who had to increase the rents year on year. That is why Estate Agents have been disliked historically, and has very little to do with their more modern equivelent.

After the first world war, the average person began to see a way of buying property, mainly because of a huge house building programme that has continued to this day, the Estate Agents became involved in property sales and rentals and as the housing stock increased, then so did the Estate Agents.

It's the same with Car dealers and Electrical stores, as their products became available and more affordable, the purveyers grew in number.

The only reason for disliking Estate Agents in todays society can be put down to class envy. The public don't like anyone who works in a suit, drives a nice car and earns a decent living.

But that is the general attitude of the British public and working classes for you!

Interesting bit of history and in general true that the property profession developed from managing the large estates of the gentry but it had developed as a profession well before the first world war

The first firm that I worked for in Liverpool was started in 1876 and they were not the oldest -they did surveys, held auctions, sales and managed properties but by then often for the middles classes and business rather than the gentry, although that still continues to this day 

The property profession today embraces many different skills as anyone who visits www.rics.org will see

"It is all an attractive proposition until you discover that the relaxed attitude extends to estate agents, lawyers, developers and public officials, including notaries and judges, most especially with property purchase deposits."

That is very true normansands, I can't imagine it ever changing soon.

I enjoyed my time as an Estate Agent before the boom, most of my collegues went around in sandals and carried their sandwiches in tatty rucksacks. Many never had a car and were happy to be driven around all day showing property in a leisurely fashion.

They spoke fluent Spanish and had good contacts with Spanish property vendors, there were hardly any British owned properties for sale in those days.

"Estate Agents have been the mosted hated profession because of there over elaberate descriptions of run down property.They used to be able to make a garden shed sound like a detached mansion."

If you take a look at the private property vendors web portals, you will see the most over-hyped flowery descriptions coming directly from their owners. Some of them can make you cringe!!

I hate it when a vendor brings in a CD with their property details on it, I have to spend an age deleting words like, delightful, myriad, majestic, gorgeous etc.

Most agents these days split the property specifications into written and factual - i.e. Beds 2 - Baths 1 - Plot  500m2 - Build size 124m2 etc. That is far more important than "This property has 2 large bedrooms, 1 luxury bathroom, extensive grounds, large build area etc.

Vendors are honestly the worst when it comes to property descriptions and just about every agent will agree with that!