ITV show on the Costa Del Sol

Yes ,I think they are sad people with a grudge.

OK!

This is what happens when I take my eye off the forum for a few days!

Thanks to all that have informed me as to what is going on.

To B-52 and all who are not listening...

One last chance to keep this thread on topic! It is a very popular thread and it is now loosing cohesion.

One more post such as yours from you or anyone in this thread that is off topic and this thread will be locked!

LAST WARNING!!!!!

In this thread we are discussing the ITV show Paradise Lost, what ITV should have filmed, and also why is it that they didn't come up with any answers. Anything related to this topic is also discussed, such as other programs and tie-in topics.

TechNoApe

'well said'

I think most would like a transparant 'Paradise Lost' show showing the dreadful regulation/corruption/justice problems faced by so many, and even more important, naming and shaming where possible, and advice on how to avoid the sharks. Having said that, there must be a positive side showing why so many love Spain also,  so it doesn't  just come over as just  a 1 sided grumble.

I found this recent article below on another supurb site, belegal. com.  Just a small example of  what people are up against with regards to justice!  I really wonder sometimes if anything will ever change in Spain?

CajaSur, through it’s affiliate Prienesur, has decided not to grant the prize to the winner of the Arenal Golf apartment lottery. The winners, a British couple currently living in Antequera, have decided to hire lawyers to sue the company for refusing to honour the lottery draw result.

Yes, well said, Technoape.

Hi goodstich, hope you're ok.

I've just read Antonio's blog you mentioned on belegal.com, very bad, isn't it ?

morerosado

yes, i'm ok thanks. 

I pointed out the article because I thought it had a connection with the thread.  As you say, it really is bad when you can't even win a lottery without having to take the company to court to get the money!!   This never ceases to amaze me why there isn't some form of regulation in between those who take peoples money and the court?.   Yet again it's a matter of betrayed trust.  Those who prefer to blame the victims will probably say ''well they shouldn't have bought the lottery tickets, or believed they would ever get the prize'',  but for heavens sake where do people draw the line? Fraud is fraud, cheating is cheating, lies are lies by any other  names, but looking at this report, what is in place to discourage them?.

TechNoApe, I wouldn't mind betting that "Chimps" is  someone with the initials JA, who posted as Just Dan (one of MANY names) who has been barred from this forum many many times.  These people just try to disrupt forums.

Dear All.

I have previously been critical of JD but not every post, funny names are OK if you don't want to be known and are private, but I don't think they fit "commercials" who should be known and profiled, indeed all regular members should be profiled.

so prize tickets are like brochures on off-plan devs' - not to be taken seriously by those in the know, most especially when they are endorsed by the holy "four".

Regards

Norman

Geeeeeeez!!   It must be the "Silly Season"! I think I will wait until the Autumn when hopefully some sense and normality will return to these forums.

Norman,

Whilst I have never  before criticised your posts, I  have to say I really cannot understand any of your last post. 

*** EDITED - As per user request. ***

Edited by TechNoApe - EOS Team

NOTE: This user is being very disruptive and abusive on the forum, hence all previous posts have been removed.

B-52, if you look Technoape  HAS deleted all your posts but still you keep on posting !

Dear Tish,

I may be mistaken but I hope the forum stays clean and doesn't become a slanging match or go the way of CB radio. Which does not mean that I approve of valid threads and posts being removed just because they are negative to "the dream".

Again I may be mistaken but I assume that those who post without giving a profile of themselves are to be taken less seriously.

That is why I post under my real name.

As to JD or Just Dan plus, I have a history of disagreement with him/them but he is something of a chameleon in that he can sometimes post sensibly.

As to prize draw tickets, the suggestion is that you are a fool to believe that you will actually receive the prize when you win, just the same as you should not believe the off-plan brochure when presented to you by the agent, developer, lawyer and mortgage broker as to bear much relation to what the end build will be.

I hope that helps.

Regards

Norman

Thanks for your reply Norman. You do not use a good analogy here:

As to prize draw tickets, the suggestion is that you are a fool to believe that you will actually receive the prize when you win, just the same as you should not believe the off-plan brochure when presented to you by the agent, developer, lawyer and mortgage broker as to bear much relation to what the end build will be.

In the UK, it is a criminal offence to offer a prize in a draw and not deliver. This applies to these "scam" draws also. In other countries eg. USA,  legislation varies hence that is why so many originate from abroad.

RE Just Dan, he was nothing but rude and disruptive. No good being nice one minute then thoroughly disruptive thereafter.

Regards,

Tish (Patricia being my second Christian name)

Hello Tish,

the reference to prize draw tickets involving property in Spain was from  Antonio's blog as posted, both parties are said to be foolish, that is the only point and with a Spanish property connection.

You hand your deposit over to a lawyer, are you being any more or less foolish than buying a ticket?????????

Is that any clearer?

Regards

Norman

norman/Tish

I think we are saying much the same

.....so to be on the safe side, google the promoters of the the lottery, then google the info' on the prize, then contact your lawyer and check the info' on the promotors and the prize is right , then go and buy your ticket .... easy!

Well anything else would be naive wouldn't it?. 

Oh and  just hope the rules don't change before the draw

I almost (but not completely) bored out of my mind by this thread now. I haven't bothered to read the blog about lottery scams as it's really not relevant here. Anyone who thinks that there's any justification for a company not paying out the prize to a ligitimate winner clearly needs their head examining. But the couple who bought the bar featured on the ITV show did the equivalent of paying £5 for a lottery ticket, where the prize was £1. Yes, if the lottery company refused to pay them the £1, that would be fraud and should not be accepted. But it wouldn't make much difference to the couple who lost £4 anyway due to their own miscalculation.

Dear Roberto,

surely boredom will lead to non participation?

surely also the point about non-payment of a won prize is that it is actually happening in Spain at the moment, not exactly similar but symptomatic of the justification for not paying back deposits?

why keep on giving the unfortunate "Rusty Nail" people the benefit of your derision?

do you know more than was portrayed in the programme?

do you know the extent of their due diligence, or the due diligence that was done on their behalf by their paid professionals?

The Casares Suites were reported to have benefited from a major consultancy firm's (lawyers I believe) £50,000 due diligence report - was that just another miscalculation?

Regards

Norman

Roberto

well the reason I highlighted the lottery thing was to say any programme on the CDS should show good and bad, warts and all, and this is another  example of just how crap the system is, if you have to take promotors to court to get something you won fair and square. That was the relevance, though a tenuous link I admit. 

So those who bought the bar made an error, most accept that, but that what it was, 'an error'.  They didn't take advantage of poor regulation, they didn't commit fraud, they didn't cheat anyone. That's the main difference between so many cheated on the CDS and those doing the cheating, yet some try to pretend both parties are sort of equally guilty???  What rubbish, the victims worst crime is being naive or making errors of judgement or trusting someone they are paying to look after their interests.  The guilty parties are those who commit calculated fraud, lies, deception etc., and without better regulation that will continue. That's one point I would like to see made clearer on any programme about the CDS.

Dear Norman, you seem to have difficulty differentiating between "derision" and "name calling" and merely stating obvious facts. I feel sorry for the RN couple - they made a mistake. I make mistakes. You make mistakes. But unfortunately, this does not necessarily mean someone else always has to be to blame. Regards.

Goodstich, there's guilt and guilt. Guilty of making an unfortunate mistake; guilty of committing a crime. I have never tried to suggest that the RN couple should be punished by law for their mistake. What an absurd conclusion to draw from my posts. I watched a show about, among other things, a couple who bought a bar in Spain. I made a comment expressing my opinion on this particular part of the show, and you & others typically siezed on the opportunity to turn this thread into another rant about poor regulation, corruption, lack of Justice in Spain etc. etc., none of which actually have any relevance to this particular couple. Start another thread, and I promise to stay off it unless I have anything relevant to say.

I'm out.

Roberto

perhaps if more people did rant, something might get done?. If you are offended by my bad mouthing the system, please try and put yourself in my situation and many others. We have been cheated and just want justice, as i'm sure you would if wronged. Of course that is relevant to the thread and the programme. I realise some peoples love of Spain does blind them somewhat to the problems many face, and who is to blame and I can understand that, but please don't expect those wronged to look through rose coloured spectacles without common sense and fair justice being in place.

You have also missed my point, about the rusty nail situation. What i'm trying to say is that we should not try and somehow balance the corruption/regulation/justice problems by blaming victims. All that does is shift blame away from the guilty towards those who at worst have made errors. My aim isn't to bash Spain and everything about it, but to try and resolve our situation by  writing to whoever we can, joining petitions, raising awareness, and doing what we can to help ourselves and others get justice.  The lottery situation just made me very angry, as it's yet another example of wrong doing, and that is related to the wrong doing we have faced. It's dishonest cheating by any other name, and is typical of what many of us have experienced.

Dear Roberto,

I have no such difficulty.

Perhaps you are confusing "obvious facts" with assumptions, who knows, we did not get enough information.

I just find it difficult to jump to the same conclusions as you about the couple's lack of any due diligence.

The forum is sometimes like that also, with a thread or story fizzling out and leaving us without an ending.

You do not say whether you knew about the Casares Suites due diligence fiasco?

How is it that posts always become "rants" when they are negative?

Did Justin "rant" about being "shafted"?

Is "Spain Uncut" one long "rant"?

Is Susan having a "rant" about the current cost of living?

Is she entitled to "rant" if she is earning and spending Euros?

What about us poor Brits with our miserable Pounds?

Woe is me.

Regards

Norman