Should you complete without a habitation certificate?

Post reply   Start new thread
:: New - Old :: Old - New

Pages: Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |

Forum home :: Latest threads :: Search forums
The Comments
08 May 2016 12:17 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

windtalker

you are spot on

the Spanish system allows for corruption in just about every aspect of daily life.

Too many dodgy individuals who get away with this and the laws of the land or EU dircetives simply cannot cope. Even when caught the time for a conviction and the penalties are nothing short of a disgrace and a very hard slap in the face for the honest citizens who end up suffering

The only soluition is a complete overhaul of the legal system, indpendant regulation, serious penalties for the bad guys and I mean everyone - dodgy taxi drivers, holiday lets, working "on the black", estate agents and the legal system

A single EU wide process for property buying (and renting) with indepedant regulation across the EU with strict enforcement and swift action against perpetrators needs to be introduced and adopted by every EU state to protect every citizen.

Anyone complaining about corruption in Spain should also ask themsleves how corrupt / legal they are - do they use / provide dodgy taxis, do they rent out their holiday homes illegally, do they declare and pay taxes on all of their income, do they employ illegal tradesman, use illegal key holders, do they work cash in hand etc etc etc  - all of these are corrupt in some way.

Some say corruption starts at the top but those at the bottom are often just as guilty

Remember those who live in glass houses should not throw stones

 

 

 

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



Like 0      
08 May 2016 3:27 PM by acer Star rating. 1529 posts Send private message

Agree with both of you, other than the comment "...the only soluition is a complete overhaul of the legal system..".

The legislation itself is fine - it's just that they only seem to impose the laws that suit them, or when they want to.  It's the culture that is awry.

But as Newworld says a simple "information pack" to provide a bit of transparency.  As you invariably get nothing of substance from the agent.



_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



Like 0      
08 May 2016 4:06 PM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1234 posts Send private message

I'd like a complete overhall of the UK's benefits system, what with former soviet block citizens claiming benefits for possible bogus families living back home, not to mention a Scottish paedophile claiming £4,500 per month whilst residing in Crete and raping and torturing young girls.

As for the widow cleaner, gardener, odd job man etc not declairing their earnings, that's the tax-man's job, not mine, I'm not likely to demand a receipt for every bit of minor expenditure.



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




Like 0      
08 May 2016 7:21 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

 

"  But as Newworld says a simple information pack to provide a bit of transparency"

There's still the need for Notaries to place a mandatory block on completions without habitation licence  in place. That's the only way to guarantee secure safe transmission of property and thereby prevent the purchaser from being exposed to litigation " after the event". This would also force the town halls to clean up this mess and issue licences for fully legal properties.

But it still leaves the question how those compromised by completions on properties that are not " fully legal" can be adequately compensated.

 





Like 0      
08 May 2016 7:29 PM by GuyT Star rating. 511 posts Send private message

@ads: "There's still the need for Notaries to place a mandatory block on completions without habitation licence  in place."

But what if someone wants to buy a property without a habitation licence? Such as a half built property that was never completed. Or say someone owns a house without a habitation licence and wants to sell and has discounted the price to reflect this.As long as the buyer is warned by the notary: "You are buying without a habitation certificate and may have serious problems getting utilities connected and will also have problems selling", I can't see a problem.





Like 0      
08 May 2016 7:32 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

Hep

We agree on somethingwink

I'd like a complete overhall of the UK's benefits system,

But let's start with the UK citzems who scrounge and really benefit from the UK's over generous welfare system NOT just johnny foreigner

As for window cleaners etc why not target them for tax avoidance it is not just the taxmans job they are just as corrupt as anyone. Paying taxes is not selective but a requirement for us all why should anyoen be allowed to avoid this?

at the end of the day the tax avoiders are ripping every citizen off

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



Like 0      
08 May 2016 7:40 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9402 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Ads: Some answers below in bold green:

How does this work in terms of accountability and last resort mechanisms with regard to non compliance of regulations associated with non provision of licence, Maria? It depends on what professional are you talking about. I posted these Andalucia regulations in answer to a question on liabilities of Estate agents below.

Who is responsible for failures to adhere to these regulations....the agent, the conveyancing lawyer, the notary, the town hall? Or are they all jointly and severally responsible These regulations were stablished for Estate agents.

It's difficult to see in practice how accountability is achieved and also are there compensation structures in place? Sanctions.

Have you represented anyone who completed on a property but has been significantly compromised by lack of habitation licence? We are

 


This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 08/05/2016.

_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



Like 1      
08 May 2016 7:50 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9402 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Newworld, I am answering you below in bold green:

I am in the middle of buying another property in Murcia, i wonder if i would get my deposit back if it turns out the property has no habitation certificate i think the answer begins N

You would, but in order to make the possible legal dispute if that happened an easier one, make sure to include an specific clause regarding this in the deposit contract.

http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/6769/legal-tip-718-deposit-contract-an-important-matter.aspx

Maria


www.saferent.takelegal.com
www.takelegal.com
www.costaluzlawyers.es

www.wemovetospain.com



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



Like 1      
08 May 2016 11:23 PM by newworld Star rating. 942 posts Send private message

Maria thanks for that info.Its very  good of you to share it with us.





Like 1      
09 May 2016 8:38 AM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1234 posts Send private message

Tadd,

If you agree with my I must be wrong. wink



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




Like 0      
09 May 2016 8:54 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9402 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

I like being part of EOS community!



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



Like 0      
09 May 2016 8:58 AM by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1234 posts Send private message

I very nearly said that.



_______________________

I'm Spartacus, well why not?




Like 0      
09 May 2016 11:00 AM by windtalker Star rating. 1934 posts Send private message

If a estate agent or a home owner is marketing a property and taking a deposit on that property that they no is not fully legal and refusing to return the deposit surely they are committing fraud by deception by not returning the deposit if it not classed as fraud they can just keep on taking deposits on the same property and not return them and make a fortune in the prosses.

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 09/05/2016.



Like 2      
09 May 2016 11:26 AM by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

That's exactly why I recommend that all deposits are paid via a qualified and registered lawyer. Combined with a legally binding agreement that any monies paid are subject to bank valuation if purchasing with a mortgage. If nothing else a bank valuation will highlight any legal question marks about the legality of a property - much more so than many lawyers (Maria de Castro excepted as I can vouch for the fact that she is thorough and diligent - many are not).

Alternatively pay deposits into an escrow account established by your lawyer and no monies to change hands until such time as every legal aspects is clarified. Without specifics many British agents are as guilty of a reluctance to return funds as any other nationality it pains me to say. 



_______________________

Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




Like 0      
10 May 2016 7:22 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

From a recent Spanish Property Insight article:

What is the FOL?

This is a document that is issued by the local council, which confirms that the property has been built in accordance with the project for which building consent was granted and that the building meets the necessary requirements for its intended use. For example, if the building is an apartment or villa, the use will be to serve as a dwelling for the owner. The FOL also confirms that the dwelling has the necessary infrastructure (i.e., road access, lighting, sewage, water and electricity).

What do we need the FOL for?

If you are the developer of the building, the FOL needs to be attached to the Deed of the Building together with the Building Licence and the architect’s Certificate of Completion, confirming that the property has been completed with the necessary infrastructure and that the description of the property in the Deeds coincides with that of the Project for which building consent was granted.

It is also required for the contracting of services and supplies, such as water, electricity and gas, for newly built properties.

Therefore, if you are a developer, you have to allow the necessary time in the contract of sale to deliver the property to the purchaser with FOL; otherwise, the purchaser can demand the resolution of the contract for non-delivery of the property by the agreed date. The timescale for this will depend on how long it takes for the particular council (where the property has been built) to resolve the application; it also depends on whether the property has been built exactly as per the plans for which building consent was granted. If extensions have been made to the original project, these will require building consent before the FOL is produced.

What alternative does a developer have if the council does not reply to the FOL application within the statutory time?

The Law on Andalusian Land Use (LOUA) provides for three months for the council to expressly resolve the FOL application. If there has been no reply, the applicant can consider the application implicitly granted (although this does not relieve the council of the duty to expressly resolve the application in which case the express resolution must confirm the implicit resolution granting the FOL). In this case, the developer has to do two things: first, apply for a certificate for the presumed FOL resolution, which the council has to grant within 15 days, and, second, communicate to the council that the property will be used within 10 days. If the council does not grant the presumed FOL resolution within 15 days, the statement of the developer before the attesting notary, confirming that the council has not resolved the application in three months and that the certificate for the presumed FOL resolution has not been granted within 15 days, will serve for the execution of the Deed of the Building.

Will the purchaser accept the presumed FOL resolution?

The fact that the FOL is implicitly granted after three months from the date of application does not relieve the council of its duty to expressly resolve the application. On the other hand, if the building has not been built in accordance with the project for which building consent was granted, the LOUA provides for the non-possibility of acquisition of rights by the elapse of time if these refer to acts that contravene the legal planning order. In this case, the council would have to deny the FOL. Our recommendation is that the purchaser makes a parallel investigation to see if there are any impending problems with the granting of the FOL, whether these are non-existent or minor problems that can be resolved and agree a retention with the vendor on the purchase price until the FOL is obtained.

Does a property with a FOL equate to non-existence of planning charges?

No. For example, in Marbella, some urbanisations have FOL irregularly granted by the council, and the owners may end up paying planning charges. Some of these developments with FOL which were built with licences not in compliance with the 1986 Town Plan are at present in the limbo. This has resulted from the Supreme Court Judgment dictated in October 2015 which made the 2010 Marbella Town Plan null and void and consequently reinstating the 1986 Town Plan. Therefore, a search in the town plan will have to be carried out to verify the planning status of the property. In addition, the purchaser has to carry out an investigation to see whether the building licence for the property has been challenged in the courts and whether such licence has been made null and void by a firm judgement and whether there are any administrative proceedings being followed by the council to try to restore the legal planning order.

With old properties, is it essential to demand the FOL?

In the past, the FOL was only required to contract services for newly built properties. Nowadays, it has become the closing element for the documentation of ownership of the property and is being demanded in every single transaction. As the LOUA requires the FOL for the execution of the Deed of a new building, the building cannot be sold to a purchaser without FOL, and, as in the past, the supplying companies cannot allow the supply without FOL.

However, if the property has been in use for considerable time, there are no planning issues and the property comes with long-standing services and supplies, the production of this document may prove a lengthy and burdensome process because a copy will have to be obtained in the archive of the council. In my opinion, in these cases, it is understood that the property has FOL and this should not be an essential document to obtain. However, some banks insist on the production of the FOL to grant a mortgage, thus making the FOL an essential component in the legal documentation of current property transactions. In addition to this to let a property under the new legislation of Tourist Holiday Rentals in Andalusia the FOL is demanded to be produced to register the property in the Special Registry for Holiday Apartments at the Andalusian Assembly (Junta de Andalucía). Registration of the property is a must to let the property for Holiday purposes.

Therefore, our recommendation is to seek experienced legal advice in planning and administrative matters to assess the importance of the FOL whenever you intend to carry out a safe real estate transaction.





Like 0      
15 Feb 2020 3:33 PM by fleurnoir Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

Therefore, if you are a developer, you have to allow the necessary time in the contract of sale to deliver the property to the purchaser with FOL; otherwise, the purchaser can demand the resolution of the contract for non-delivery of the property by the agreed date. The timescale for this will depend on how long it takes for the particular council (where the property has been built) to resolve the application; it also depends on whether the property has been built exactly as per the plans for which building consent was granted. If extensions have been made to the original project, these will require building consent before the FOL is produced.





Like 0      
07 Oct 2022 7:43 PM by D.walker Star rating. 1 posts Send private message

How difficult is it to obtain certificate of habitation in palma Mallorca 





Like 0      
10 Oct 2022 12:11 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Pages: Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |

Post reply    Start new thread


Previous Threads

Good morning every one! - 9 posts
bank guaruntee - 66 posts
LHD car wanted. RHD to sell. - 0 posts
How Much Tax Do I Pay ?? - 9 posts
Hallo - 1 posts
5% Retention - 2 posts
Pool Table - 5 posts
Aifos Mail on Sunday Article - 10 posts
BUSINESS PARTNER - 0 posts
Newbie from Guardamar - Sky TV - 1 posts
We've moved in .... - 20 posts
Purchase of spanish apartment - 1 posts
Hi everybody - 5 posts
Television Licence - 5 posts
Newe member - 3 posts
EASYJET HAVE CANCELLED A FLIGHT! - 33 posts
wealth and income tax - 127 posts
TDT TV guide - 3 posts
Parcela - 7 posts
Digital TV - 0 posts
Hi New member - 2 posts
printed merchandise - 1 posts
Hi Everyone, can anyone help me with Self-Cert mortgage info? - 3 posts
Trampolin Hills, Trampolin Solera, the company and it's Directors - 6 posts
looking for a serious business partner - 0 posts

Number of posts in this thread: 78

DISCLAIMER:  All opinions posted on these message boards are the opinion solely of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Eye on Spain, its servants or agents.


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
Our Weekly Email Digest
Name:  
Email:
   


This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More information here. x