Buying apartment - Fees

Here is my break down of costs, does it seem right?

LEGAL FEES purchase : 1500 euros

NIE - 300 Euros

Transfer tax 10% = 5500

Notary fee 550 euros

Land registry fee 650

Power of attourny 200

It says my legal fees and the above, plus  transfer tax come to 8700 euros.  I think what I did was lump all the costs in together and assumed it was all legal.

Emelia

Roberto,

I actually did buy the property for £10,000 less than it was advertised for. But i do think it was overpriced to start with. I am a bit concerned now about this valor castral value.

Emelia

Sometimes charge for bins? That implies that "sometimes" they'll empty them! I don't know about that area, but often the bins (basura) are included on your water bill.

Wanting fast internet and getting it are not necessarily the same thing! Have you checked if there's an existing phone line into the property? Assuming (hoping) you can get a decent connection, the simplest thing is to get a VPN and then use something like NowTV. Others may have different suggestions of course (such as dodgy IPTV services)

€1500 for legal fees (conveyancing in other words) seems a bit steep to me, but like I said, maybe they work on a minimum. Likewise, €300 for obtaining your NIE; I don't know, maybe other (more recent arrivals) can share what they paid. Personally I'd expect that to be included in the €1500. Have you bothered to get another quote from anyone? Was this lawyer recommended by the estate agent? (If so, there's some comission bung included in those figures for sure) Notary & registry fees are what Kavanagh refers to as disbursements: you should get an invoice showing the actual costs, and if you overpaid on account, should get reimbursed, but they're probably fairly accurate. Transfer tax on the €47000 you say you paid would be €4700 at 10%, not €5500, so maybe they've already reassessed the value for tax purposes. Don't worry about the valor catastral, I only mentioned it to explain how they calculate the market value. You can find the valor catastral on the last IBI/SUMA (rates) bill, which the lawyer must have a copy of. If you can get hold of it, and the year it was last revised, stick it in to this calculator to see what the supposed market value is: http://csi.ha.gva.es/kiosko/valor_bien_urbano.principal?el_idioma=CAST&calcular=si (Or just ask your lawyer to clarify this point for you!)

Edit: apologies, just realised some of your figures were quoted in £ and others in €, which explains the discrepancies! You did say originally £8700 on a £47000 purchase price, but obviously meant €8700 on €55000

This message was last edited by Roberto on 23/03/2019.

Rubbish collection tax is sometimes included in your water bills but some councils charge a separate amount. We have paid a separate amount since last year of about 80 euro a year but our water bills were reduced by 20 euro a quarter to compensate.

You will have the IBI (council tax) bill annually. This will depend on your local municipality but ours, for a 3 bed house, was €242 last year.

The non-resident tax is imputed income tax. It is shared between the owners and will possibly be in the region of 160 euro a year so 80 euro each (again, depends on the area you have bought).

Other bills are your  electricity (ours is between 50 and 60 euro a month but we live here permanently). Be aware you will pay between 20 and 30 euro a month even if you are not there. 

The water bill, ours is now around 50 euro a quarter but rubbish collection is not included. Bank on 70 odd euro a quarter if it is included.

Other bills will depend on what you want. TV and internet vary among companies but we have a sat dish so no TV charges after initial installation. Internet and phone is 25 euro a month which includes all phone calls up to 500 minutes a month and then 0.01 cents a minute after that. Lots of companies do a switch on/switch on service so you only pay for it when you are there. 

I still think your solicitor overcharged you. We are on our third property here and the solicitor charged us 1% each time but added VAT. So a 47,000 property should be 470 euro plus 21% or about 570 (pounds or euro whatever you are working in). 

Enjoy it. It will be worth it when it's all done and dusted, honest.

€300 for NIE is top whack many estate agents arrange it for €50

TV. If you can install a Sky dish and box you can have TV viewing for free.

Rubbish collection in Spain is good value and they come most days, unlike the UK where they go on strike but still charge you.

NIE 

The application is simple and costs about 12 euros !

I made a power of attorney (Poder) for my son directly with a notary, 50 euros.

The imputed tax you will need to pay each year, on a form 210, often referred to as second home tax/ non resident property tax, is just about 0.2145% the cadastral valor or the price you paid/declared on the escritura, which ever is the higher.  

       Example price paid 200,000 euros  x 0.2145% =  429 euros 

Emília, too late for you but your experience hopefully will serve to assist others:  Ask before you instruct any ’professional’

Roberto, you say - "dodgy IPTV services"  - that doesn't do mine any justice, "fantastic" is a better word.

Isn't saying that IPTV is "dodgy" and in the same breath recommending a VPN a trifle hypocritical?

Did I refer specifically to your IPTV?

I was merely warning the OP of the existence of many dodgy suppliers of IPTV services for unwary foreigners, which you know perfectly well is a fact.

Perhaps you would like to publicly recommend yours? 

Roberto - the IPTV device I now use is connected to a signal from Rainbow in Mazarron.  Had in a year and it's done exactly as promised. 

I've used a few systems over the years, this is massively superior and well worth the €200 pa fee.

Thanks again everyone. Its been really helpful and does seem like I've paid over the odds for legal fees but I am happy that I saved a lot of money in other areas so I guess it balances out :-)

I am familiar with VPN but not much with IPTV so will look into it, along with any internet tv packages that might be available in my area.

Maridav I am sure once it's all sorted it will be one of the best things I have done :-) My parents and rest of the family are already pencilling in holidays so hopefully there will be space for me to get some time there as well lol

Emelia

Glad we've been helpful.

Hopefully you'll be too busy discovering the delights of your new environment to bother with TV, but if it's important I'm sure you'll find someting to suit you. With a VPN you'll be able to access iPlayer and the other free services of course. If you need more, the advantage of something like NowTV is that there's no contract so you can just pay for movie or entertainment passes when you need them. 

You may be classed as a holiday let and will need to register your family with the police when they come and go. You may incur holiday let tax liability. I am not sure how the authorities class the status of ‘’rest of the family’’, even picking them up at the airport can be illegal.

Oh, dear, where do these "Project Fear" stories come from

It is not "illegal" to pick up family, friends or anyone else up from the airport unless you are charging them for doing so.

Same with friends and family staying at your holiday home. If you don't charge them then they are classed as personal guests whether you are there or not. It's only when you start charging them for the use of it that they are no longer classed as personal guests. Making a charge for utilities is not counted. 

I think that even getting payment may not to a reason to be register unless one is letting as a travel agent would.  So advertising etc.   I will ask on in the office assigned to that onThursday when I am next at the police station and post the reply.    

I did raise that with Maria when the law was first published and she agreed with my understanding of the law. 

Watch this space !

https://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/decree-of-the-tourist-accommodation-in-andalucia

Quote.    Holiday rental accommodations are considered to be properties located in a residential zone that are regularly offered for touristic purposes by financial transaction. In other words, they are promoted or marketed via tourism channels.

A tourism channel is considered to be travel agencies, intermediary companies or those that provide tourist services and/or channels that include the possibility of making a reservation.

You are absolutely correct, but the burden of proof of innocence is on the accused. Long gone are the days of innocent until proven guilty? How do you prove you are not charging for the property or airport pick up? Most holiday rental payments are UK bank to bank or paypal, so the Spanish authorities presume if the property is occupied by tourists you are renting it and the old story of only charging petrol for airport pick up won’t wash anymore. The authorities are aware that owners offer to rent their properties privately to anyone without using a holiday let website.

Ministry of Tourism and Sports

Decree 28/2016, of February 2, on housing for tourist purposes and modification of Decree 194/2010, of April 20, of tourist apartment establishments.

All properties that are not registered or have not filed a declaration of responsibility and are being used for tourism purposes could be fined up to €180,000. £163,500. Also, any property that does not meet the requirements of this Decree may also be fined.

Hi Angeleyes,

I doubt I would have to register my elderly parents with the police if they fancy a week in the sun or my niece and nephews :-) I am not even going to rent out my apartment at all simply because I would be too worried about damage and it hasn't been bought as a commercial venture. I would never charge family to stay there not even for the utilities they used :-)

I have only bought it for myself  and my family to use. I  was aware that my savings in the bank were not accumulating any interest as such and I was paying out ridiculous amounts for holidays each year. It just made sense to buy my own place. 

Emelia

Emila don’t give it a second thought  

You and your family using it as you have posted will be no problem whatsoever 

Perhaps the question to ask is what is the legal default? Is there such a thing as a declaration  of responsibility where you state the property is not being used for touristic purposes?

In other words are you expected to make some form of legal declaration ( and to whom?....the community administrator, a notary?) to state you are not renting it out otherwise you will be treated as if you were and become liable for a fine even if family members were using it without any form of payment.

Sad to say, you might only need one person to report comings and goings of “ others” to the authorities for a potential costly litigious default to occur where you have to prove your innocence perhaps? 

Perhaps Maria could clarify how best to legally minimise the instance of being placed at risk in this way, from the outset? 

Ads.  

With all due respect  in spain one does need to prove they are not doing something.  So I do not have to say I am not letting my apartment, that I am not doing taxi runs, that I am not getting paid for voluntary work I have done for over 20 years for the police, etc.  I only am required to declare what I have done if that is a legal requirement. 

If somebody says I am doing something which i should have declared then the authority concerned, AEAT, police etc. would need to prove that I am