New Regulations for Rental Properties - installation of air conditioning

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03 Jul 2016 14:12 by ninabailey Star rating in San Jose, Almeria. 8 posts Send private message

I'm sure everyone involved in short-term property rentals in Andalucia is aware of the new decree that came into force  in May. Most of the new rules are very sensible, but a lot of people are against the installation of aircon in every bedroom and living room.  I've started a petition to ask the Junta de Andalucia to allow people to interpret the phrase "refrigeracion por elementos fijos" to mean fixed ceiling fans as well as aircon.  Not everyone likes aircon, and it's dreadful for the environment. If you want to sign it, you can find the petition at change.org, just search for Andalucia, it's the last one on the list.



_______________________
Nina, San Jose Spain



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03 Jul 2016 15:08 by windtalker Star rating. 1730 posts Send private message

Ask yourself if you booked a air-conditioning apartment wood you be happy with a fan that was only able to circulate at the temp in a room IE 35° or more in the summer think about it.The main reason in having rules and laws is to put every one on a level playing field .

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 03/07/2016.



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03 Jul 2016 16:47 by ninabailey Star rating in San Jose, Almeria. 8 posts Send private message

I agree 100% that if an apartment says it has aircon, it must have aircon.   But not everyone wants it, some are happy without it and therefore can book an apartment without it.  Some people want swimming pools, others don't.  Some people want terrace with sea view, other don't.  Some want wifi, others don't.  The owners should advertise their apartments accurately and honestly and then the renter can decide.  We are all capable of making our own decisions. Why should a lovely old house, facing east, spacious and airy, have to install 6 aircon units in order to make it rentable?  My argument is that different people want different things, and are capable of choosing what they want.  I don't like the Junta telling me what I want.



_______________________
Nina, San Jose Spain



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03 Jul 2016 21:16 by windtalker Star rating. 1730 posts Send private message

The government have laid down the minimal requirements for rental property ,to get the Turistca Licence unfortunately you will need to respect this .Basically this type of requirement is put in place to drive the poor standard rental property out of the market.





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03 Jul 2016 22:52 by Candyfloss Star rating in Cardiff / Mar Menor. 1605 posts Send private message

Candyfloss´s avatar

I do not know what the new decree is but, if I was going to rent a property that used the wording air conditioned and arrived to find ceiling fans, I would not be happy at all. If satellite TV and Wifi was omitted from the description, again this is accurate so would not be expected. Is this new decree the equivalent to the misdescriptions act in Britain?

 


This message was last edited by Candyfloss on 03/07/2016.



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04 Jul 2016 00:04 by ninabailey Star rating in San Jose, Almeria. 8 posts Send private message

I think there has been a misunderstanding here.   A property should always be described accurately - if there is no air conditioning then it should not say there is air conditioning.  If there is no pool, it shouldn't say there is a pool. If there is no wifi, it shouldn't say there is wifi.  This new decree is nothing to do with incorrect desciption - it lays down rules for what a rental property should have, to be able to rent it legally. Some of these rules are extremely sensible - for example that every bedroom should have a window, that there should be a first aid kit, that there should be a 24 hours phone number in case of problems - all these are good things.  But, one of these rules is that EVERY room should have air conditioning.  My point is that, as long as the property is described correctly, it shouldn't necessarily have to have air conditioning installed.  So, if the property says "ceiling fans in the bedrooms", the renter is not going to expect aircon.  Not everyone likes, or needs, air conditioning - it is very bad for the environment and in some cases can be bad for your health.  We should be able to make our own decisions on this.  But I agree with you - all rental properties should be described correctly.



_______________________
Nina, San Jose Spain



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04 Jul 2016 13:42 by randolph Star rating. 167 posts Send private message

I Totally agree Nina.

I can understand the need to control basic standards  - but everything else should be by choice and the advert should be accurate. Personally I detest A/C. I can undertand it can be considered important in a working environment and also in  bedrooms, but not in the lounge where folks tend to be in and out throughout the day. Also, our villla is like many others with  an open plan  lounge and kitchen so the room is huge. 

Plus, now holiday home owners are not allowed to charge extra for electricity all renters are going to pay the penalty for the ignorant, selfish dingbats who leave the A/C on and the doors open all day. I have looked into installing sensors on all the doors and windows  but it is impractical and extremely expensive in a large villa with numerous doors and windows. If I go along this route I will need to pass on the cost to guests. 

When we were a young couple with 3 kids our money was short and our needs simple. All we wanted was clean, basic accommodation ( with 2 ring cooker, fridge, and bathroom and a bed each) that was close to a beach and shops because we could not afford to hire a car. Anything else were luxuries we did not need and could not afford. The Andalucian tourist board are in danger of eliminating cheap coastal holidays.

We owned a guest house and self-catering cottages in the Lake District for 30 years - typical walking country. We offered high quality, comfortable accommodtion, spacious rooms ( all with views)  and all food was locally sourced and home-cooked by my own fair hands. Our prices were based on our facilities. For those who just needed a bed and food there were numerous decent hostels who provoded perfectly acceptable accommodation at a fraction of the cost.  

 

 


This message was last edited by randolph on 04/07/2016.


This message was last edited by randolph on 04/07/2016.



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04 Jul 2016 13:59 by ninabailey Star rating in San Jose, Almeria. 8 posts Send private message

Thanks Randolph - you have explained it so clearly that I think the others will now understand what I am trying to get at!

I'm still not allowed to post the actual link here to the petition on change.org but anyone can find it by searching for Andalucia on that site.



_______________________
Nina, San Jose Spain



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04 Jul 2016 14:06 by GuyT Star rating. 496 posts Send private message

I wonder how or if this will affect small hotels, hostals, etc. A few years ago I walked with a couple of my kids from Sevilla to Santiago and on to Fistera. (Ruta de la Plata) It took over two months July/Aug/Sept to cover what turned out to be over 1500 km and we stayed in mostly cheapish accomodation - averaging €30 per room/night. Only about 10% of the places had aircon. A favourite ruse was for signs saying  "clima controlado" which at first we naively thought meant aircon but in fact never did - it meant a single  oscillating fan on the landing, lol. I agree wholeheartedly that as long as one doesn't advertise aircon then it ought to be optional, just like a swimming pool. Personally I like nothing better than open windows and an overhead fan.

 

I'll have a go at answering my own question. I doubt the little commercial places I have described will have to conform as they are already on the radar and locally owned. This measure will be designed to hobble foreigners wanting to let their vacant properties. Next they might say solid gold taps are a requirement; anything to make things more difficult.





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04 Jul 2016 22:15 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4534 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

"The main reason in having rules and laws is to put every one on a level playing field ."

But it's not level, is it? Because these new regulations only apply to private rentals. The hostals & cheap hotels that Guy stayed at have a different set of regulations. I don't know if they now require a/c in all rooms, but they certainly didn't used to, and I know of several local establishments that don't have a/c. I think I read that the requirement for free wifi has been dropped, which is good, because I agree with the comments here - if a property doesn't have it, as long as it doesn't say it does, so what? If people want it, they can select a different property that does. I know of a local 4* hotel that charges for wifi access - and even charges it's guests to hire sunloungers at the pool! 

I'm in favour of regulations to ensure a certain standard of safety and cleanliness etc., but when it comes to "extras" that should be optional and up to the consumer whether they require them or not, clearly this has gone too far and is prejudicial.

Can't find your petition, Nina, need to give a few more clues (title, perhaps?) If I can find it I'll gladly post the link.



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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05 Jul 2016 13:12 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

Windtalker  Basically this type of requirement is put in place to drive the poor standard rental property out of the market.

 

Interesting but I believe the rules, which are of course different in each Region, were brought it at the demand of the hotels to discourage, destroy the private rental market. 

Unfortunately the hotel industry and officialdom do not realise that people who choose to stay in private apartments are very unlikely to stay in an hotel. They will of course just go to a country where they can rent what they want.





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06 Jul 2016 07:47 by ninabailey Star rating in San Jose, Almeria. 8 posts Send private message

Thanks Roberto and Johnzx - your comments are very relevant.

Eye on Spain will still not allow me to post the link - apparently my account is not approved.  If anyone would like to sign, send me a private message via the site. 

Thanks for your support!



_______________________
Nina, San Jose Spain



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06 Jul 2016 08:20 by windtalker Star rating. 1730 posts Send private message

I don't really no why you are making so much fuss ordinary people like myself that own property in Spain have Air-conditioning ,I have 3. I don't rent my villa out for Profit like you do so unless you have these AC units fitted you will not have a business, so get them fitted ASAP ,if you have a good Accountant then he should be able to off set the cost against you're Tax assuming you are renting out legally that is .



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06 Jul 2016 09:23 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

I don't really know why you are making so much fuss,   ordinary people like myself that own property in Spain have Air-conditioning ,I have 3. I don't rent my villa out for Profit like you do so unless you have these AC units fitted you will not have a business, so get them fitted ASAP ,if you have a good Accountant then he should be able to offset the cost against you're Tax assuming you are renting out legally that is .

I don’t know why you seem to assume that anyone, me for instance, who comment  unfavourably on the ‘New Regs’ must be doing so because they let.   I don’t,  but any intelligent person will see the absurdity in the Regs,  which as I said vary from Region to Region.

If people do not let legally I don’t suppose they will be too concerned about the new regs either.  So no extra problem for them.    For those do, or believe they do, let legally then they introduce ridiculous potential burdens, albeit that some of the costs incurred with the Regs can be offset against tax.

PS   I too have full air con but seldom if ever use it for cooling:  I much prefer ceiling fans.  Healthier for both me and the planet.





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06 Jul 2016 10:16 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4534 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

I also have full central a/c which I almost never use. I also do not own any rental properties. I also can see very clearly the absurdity and unfairness of these regulations, so Windtalker, why not concentrate on your (you're?) spelling & grammar before having a go at others. I know (no?) you can do better!

Found the petition! https://www.change.org/p/junta-de-andalucia-no-a-la-instalaci%C3%B3n-obligatoria-de-aire-acondicionado-en-andaluc%C3%ADa

 


This message was last edited by Roberto on 06/07/2016.

_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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06 Jul 2016 10:25 by windtalker Star rating. 1730 posts Send private message

Roberto stop picking holes ,the original poster can claim the full amount back on their Tax return ( FREE AC ) what more can you ask for so what is all the fuss about you obviously no nothing about running a business .MY spelling and grammar ,l am the first to admit is crap so get a life . l just love quote ( I to have AC but almost never use it what the hell is that suppose to mean does it mean you can't afford to run it or you only use it when you need to .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 06/07/2016.



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06 Jul 2016 10:40 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4534 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Free a/c?! Offsetting the cost of installation against your tax is not quite a complete refund, as you make it sound, and neither can you claim back the electricity bills that will result, let alone the environmental damage. 



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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06 Jul 2016 11:12 by ninabailey Star rating in San Jose, Almeria. 8 posts Send private message

Windtalker - you are missing the point, losing the thread of the original post, and I would prefer that you kept your language polite and stop being rude.  The point of this post, and the petition, is that it is a CHOICE issue.  The owners can choose how they manage their properties, and then the renters can decide whether or not they want to rent somewhere with aircon or not. Or a pool or not.  Or wifi or not. We are all capable of making our own decisions.  My decision is not to use aircon, I don't like it.



_______________________
Nina, San Jose Spain



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06 Jul 2016 11:26 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

 

Link posted for ninabailey

http://www.change.org/p/junta-de-andalucia-no-a-la-instalaci%C3%B3n-obligatoria-de-aire-acondicionado-en-andaluc%C3%ADa?

 

PS  extract from that link :- 

The new decree 28/2016 states that private properties which are rented out for holiday lets between April and September must have “refrigeración por elementos fijos” (cooling by fixed elements) in all bedrooms and living rooms.  We have been told that this means air conditioning.  Our request is that the Junta de Andalucia allows the interpretation of this to also mean fixed ceiling fans.

Sorry but I believe that can only mean Air Con units as fans do not cool the air (refrigeración).  Fans increase the flow of air across damp skin and thus increase the rate of evaporation.  The process of evaporation requires engery (calories) which is acquired in the form of heat from the skin. Thus it cools the skin.

If you do not believe me,   a very simple experiment to prove it:  Put a thermometer in front of a fan. 

 

 


 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 06/07/2016.


This message was last edited by johnzx on 06/07/2016.



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06 Jul 2016 16:43 by windtalker Star rating. 1730 posts Send private message

I of to give the barn door some free advice on how get some free AC at the Tax mans expense assuming I am totally legal that is.



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