Community Administrators

It seems it is time for action in our community and it looks like this is the right time to look at what other companies providing Community Administration can offer and at what price.

We are a community of around 250 houses located between Estepona and Marbella and many residents who are totally dissatisfied with our current administration company feel it is time to take a look out side.  Our wish list is not unreasonable, we would like

1. Honesty and transparency in all community affairs

2. Efficiency

3. A proactive approach (I know this might be a big ask)

Please feel free to give me recommendations and names of those to avoid at all costs (this will be treated confidentially) but we would certainly like to talk with the good guys out there.

Thanks in anticipation for your help.

All three of those on the wish list are a big ask I'm afraid to say from experience... don't dismiss DIY on a smaller urbanisation like yours.

Barry

 Good evening;  I would firstly state that the requirements sort below from the member of ;Honesty & Transparency ; Efficiency & Proactivity are a standard in our practice.

I am aware of the poor professional standards of Spanish firms acting as community administrators .They normally come in two different types:

1,Single practicing lawyers  undertaking this work as a "bolt on" to other legal services which are their main income but using the community members as a method of feeding the same with new clients. I have no issue with multi-discipline firms but these should be very seperate in the services they offer & then this can be a benefit to communities ( my partner is a chartered accountant so our community accounts are exact & completed to this  European standard).Unfortunately I see on a regular basis communities that have been used normally by a sharp lawyer as tool for them to sue members from their own legal firm for community fees to bulid up a pipeline of work. The management of the community is something that is a long way from their daily priorities.

2. Spanish Administradors who work on a numbers method of obtaining as many appointments as possible often direct from the promotors on completion of developments .These types seek to hold onto the appointment in any method possible wether legal or not but are unable to meet the professional service demands necessary to discharge their duties to their members.

I often find it difficult to obtain new appointments because of the sour reputation given to my profession by the types above who have left many English speaking communities in Spain with substantial problems.

I will always make time to discuss community matters with any member in person in our region of practice between Denia & Gibralter. My only request is that we are considered on our merits as a professional  practice who provide a different type of management to that of other native firms.

F.Parkinson Jacksons Administradores SL

@Jacksonadmin. I have read your numerous posts with interest but I have to confess they make me uneasy. Your blatant self promotion is off putting. If you are as good as you say you are others will recommend you and if you give honest and sound advice business will come your way without the need for you to keep telling us how good you are.

There is a 3rd categaory of Spanish Administrator who while not being pedantic like we are, are actually Honest, Transparent and Proactive (OK they are maybe not Efficient!)

@alphamed. We are in Fuengirola and our (very good Spanish) administrator is based in Belanmadena so not much use to you but ask around - local bars are often a source of useful information!

 David, Thank you for your reply. It not self promotion in that I am stating we  meet the 3 requirements the member sort in his mail. In terms of native competitors I am flagging up as a warning to members what to be aware of.

I would also like to point out that I do not promote our practice on this site but answer member"s requests for information on various community questions for which I receive many mails in thanks.The majority of our appointments are received by recommendation.

Regards 

F.Parkinson. Jacksons Administradores SL.

Please could someone tell me the rules of Administration regarding the minutes of any meeting AGM or EGM. After our AGM meeting in January 2015 I expected a copy of the minutes. to date we have not received them. Because of Illness I was unable to attend the last meeting, at the end of 2015. I have always received a copy of the minutes which included the financial & expences report's. All my community fees which are €80 a month are paid are paid in full, Send several requests by email and telephone from the UK. but my mails have been ignored. can anyone advise me of the Spanish law on receiving a copy of the minutes.

The minutes of any formal community meeting ( AGM,EGM or Ordinary) need to be sent to all members ( regardless of payment status) of the community after 10 days maximum following the meeting.This is the law but in real terms often they are sent out by admins slightly later depending on the complexity of the meeting undertaken and when the president id free to sign them. The minutes contain the agenda ,attendees and payment status of the members.

If you are receiving the call to the meeting which your mail suggests with the annual accounts and annual proposed budget as well as the above stated ( are you receiving a invoice for your community fees) ? Then there is no excuse for the not sending the minutes to you. A member can claim against the minutes for up to 1 year if not received and annul the meeting.

You could send a certificated letter by post from a Spanish post office confirming the address you wish to receive all written communications ( many are sent by email now so include your email address too) demanding a copy of all the minutes you have not received . This letter to be addressed and sent to the  Secretary of the community ( often the administrator).

I hope this helps.

Regards

F.Parkinson Jacksons Administradores SL

This post should be in the  relevant   community forum.😀

What an odd comment windtalker.    There may be no community forum for the OP's community - or it might be totally  unused.  In fact, the query has been answered really well, so why comment at all if you have nothing to add to the reply.  

A very apt comment Roly.

it is very likely a Community will not have its own forum, Spanish run Communities are very reluctant to communicate to owners more than they have to, they may have to reveal too much.

this thread is titled Running a Community so it was the appropriate place to ask the question and as you say, well answered which may well be a help to others.

Sadly adminstrators have a bad name due to bad act (the HPA) and the whole lot should be scrapped.

The HPA should be done away with and communities should simply pay into the town hall who are very well equipped to maintain a community along the lines of other public places and creat and maintain jobs. This wil lalso get rid of the high and mighty presidents and commitees!!!! Ye things may be wrong at town halls but it woudl be afr better solution than this silly HPA

The HPA simply allows for silly laws that inhibit peaceful and democractic living (try and change a community constitution where you need 100% in favour which allows any one single owner the right of veto - democracy you are having a laugh!!)

Adminstrators charge a lot of money for very lttle work and many communities are now doing it on their own which is the only option. Many use a solictor once a year to file the (unecessary) paperwork and a huge saving (even better if you have a solictor on your community)

IMO the HPA simply allows for a few to make money out of joe public, allow indivuals to start thinking they are God, cause neighbourly arguments, and dare I say it corruption. The whole thing is silly and a waste of time, money and simple human decency.

RANT over but in summary get rid of administrators and do it yourself

I do not agree with all the statements from the letters below as we have had very good Presidents for our complex during the last 8 years. We change or Administrator 4 years ago after finding the Original company seemed to be working for the builder and not our community. It has been very difficult to understand why obtaining our Habitation certificate has not been granted but the New administrator along with our English President have show that the builder seems to have many officials in his pocket.

Dispite all the problems we have had which started when we had several power cuts because the Builder had not settled the Utility bills since the start of the build in 2004, a huge debt that the current 16 owners were to pay, sadly only the non nationals paid up. We now know that they were the majority were rent to buy customers of the Builder, who never paid any community fees. It took 8 years to obtain personal utility meters. yet we paid the builder €900 each at the completion of our purchases,  We are all still paying €80 to €100 community fees a month.

Sadly 5 of the original purchasers which includes our wonderful President of 4 years, have now sold their apartments,  but at a very high cost as the original owners lost 2 thirds of the original price paid.

I just wish the current Administrators would do the paperwork and send the current owners the current minutes for the meeting that took place in January 2015. 5 months and still waiting dispite requesting 4 times. We like to know where we are with the chase to obtain the Habitation Certificate.

The Builder failed to complete the Road. rented most of the apartments he still owned to several of the people who worked for him. collected the rent but still failed to pay into the community pot or complete the work we all paid to be done as part of the agreement at the completion with the Notary.  He entered the building shortly after he ceased to trade and removed a vital equitment needed for the Emergency Water, leaving a flood in the Underground Garage. encouraged squatters who have caused a lot of damage and stolen the utility units costing the community thousands. It has been a nightmare.

I love our apartment which is quite well designed and very comfortaable, just wish it was legal to live their with the approved Habitation Certificate. 8 years later we still live in the UK and just spend only holidays in Spain.  Our apartment is not for renting, it is ment to be our home.

Tadd1966. 

I am so glad you don't live on our urbanisation, i think we would be disagreeing quite a lot.

I am a hard working President of four years now. Turning a run down community into one off the better ones on the Costa del Sol. I am not "high and mighty" but having said that not everybody agrees with what i do [well one owner dosn't [out of the 84 we have] talking of the high and mighty] We changed administrators three years ago, they charge us 7500 euro for doing our books, giving advice to me should i need it, and of course a point of contact for all the owners.

Plus all owners accounts, relating to community fees etc are "on line" and can be accessed anywhere in the world on their computer. As President i have an up to date set of current accounts, debtors etc, all "on line" I never really need to speak to the "main man" but he is always there if i need him.

I could go on, but my point is you think communities should do it themselves !! and could do it for less [than our 7500].

Like many on forums i think you have opened your mouth without any relevant facts, perhaps other than the usual "I know it all" [and done now't] and of course "Spain is a third world country"  [if only i had a euro for every time i have heard that] I am not directly accusing you of any of these statements but you do come across that way.

AND "as for paying community fees into the Town Hall" do not get me started !!

You are entitled to your opinion but please do not brand all Presidents and administrators as "a bad option" I work very hard for our community 'and so do our administrators] and i know other Presidents who work harder than i do in trying to straighten out the "mess" that the boom years left many communities in. 

This message was last edited by CostaBlade on 20/06/2015.

And by the way - "Horizontal property law" is legal framework for communities to work, you may not agree with parts of it [that don't suit you] but it is a very good way of stopping owners doing "whatever they like"  what could be better ?

This system operates in England where people live in privately owned apartment blocks and equally works well.

I don't understand anybody that wouldn't want a legal framework in protecting their rights within a community.

costablade

You may be the exception to the rule (as I do not know you I can only take your word for it) and yes the HPA is legal but it is totally unecessary and in my experience there are far more high and mighty power crazy presidents than good hard honest working ones

There is no need to get personal as you do not know me or what I know or don't, what I do and what I have done in the past. and yes you are right I am entitled to my own opinion - so if you do not like it get over it. Comments like this IMO simply put you in the bracket of those who are.........................

None of my comments were directed to you so don't take it too personally or get too upset about it

We have enough laws governing ius and yes gated commuities all over the world have similar things but that does not make it right, fair and democratic. The process in Spain is not democratic and when one person has a total veto over any changes it is not democratic simple really worse than FIFA!!!!!

7500€ for an adminstrator nice work for them - I rest my case

Poedoe

Have you tried any contact with the College of Administradores that most Spanish Administrators say they are overseen by.

It is completely unacceptable not to receive minutes as has been stated but this is not a problem of HPA which may not be the most democratic system but does help govern Communities and is used in U.S., UK, Germany to name but a few.

Lack of minutes is down to inefficient Administrator or corrupt President, of which, of course there are many but as CostaBlade says, we should not be tarnished by a sweeping generalisation.

There are good and bad in all forms of life but those owners that are apathetic to what goes on in their own Community are as much to blame for allowing the insane to run the asylum.

Tadd 1966

"7500€ for an adminstrator nice work for them - I rest my case"

Let me put this in context for you... it reads Seven Thousand Five hundred euros [per annum] not 75,000 euros.

Now if you think that is al ot of money for keeping our community accounts up to date, also for keeping us "legal" as regards new oncoming legislation then you really don't know what you are talking about.

My turn to rest my case !!

Costablade 7500€ could do a lot for a community other than line some adminstrators coffers - it is not a diffcult job or rocket science many communities larger than yours do it themselves

You say you have been a hard working president for 4 years for a small community of 84 surley in that time you must have learnt the system well enough to be able to do the role of admin. Even if you did not get re elected you could still do a job for the community you live in AND save the money or pass your great knowledge onto the new president.

Again I rest my case for communities learing the admin roll and doing it themselves

 it is not a diffcult job or rocket science many communities larger than yours do it themselves

Yes, your are right. It's not a difficult job until you realise that 100% of the communication both written and spoken will have to be carried out in fluent Spanish better still native Spanish. Just to give you a flavor, at the moment our administrators are dealing with the local council on a number of issues.swimming pool rules, tree removal, parking problems just to name a few.

The administrator is also liaising with lawyers, courts and barristers preparing a case against a debtor, Most of the administrators work will require a in depth knowledge of both the HPA and the law of the land something most presidents do not possess nor want to learn.

I'm in my second term as president and believe you me we would of made nowhere near the progrees we have without a good administrator. Ours charges 800€ per year for 10 properties so not dissimiliar to the charges CostaBlade speaks of - 80€ per house per year

 100% of the communication both written and spoken will have to be carried out in fluent Spanish

Well what a suprise as we are in Spain ..... NOT 

I fullyunderstand the complications but why is the language a problem? Not a reason for not doing it just a very poor excuse

As an example I know a president of one community of 185 properties who does the admin he is Norwegian and speaks Spanish fluenty (as well as English and German). They have a commitee of 4 who help (fees were 250€ per year per property)

There are many ways to learn Spanish, if you must many translators are available at reasonable rates and most communites will have some Spanish owners

In 3 to 5 years you can study for a university degree in just about any subject (including languages) learn a trade - full or part time

If you "hired" the local council as I suggested maybe these probelms would not exist.

I would rather the 80€ per property per year stayed in the community instead or unscrupulous administartors who take full advantage of a very silly, draconian, undemocratic and strict HPA