The need for more effective monitoring systems and enforceable regulatory controls

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03 Jul 2012 02:04 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

The more we learn as we debate the issue re the failings within the financial industry , the more obvious it becomes (to me at least!)  that without transparency in the form of an independent trustworthy effective monitoring system with powers to enforce regulation and effectively penalise, then all European  citizens will remain bottom of the pile and pay the price for the financial industry's failures.

The lack of effective Spanish Banking supervision acts as a classic example where citizens appear to have had  the wool pulled over their eyes. Just recently Keith Rule identified the following

Regarding the Banco de España claims service – this is from their website:

The reports issued by the Claims Service are not binding on the parties.

SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A CLAIMS SERVICE AND SUPERVISORY BODY IF THEY FAIL TO ENFORCE THEIR FINDINGS???

I find it really hard to understand why those within the financial industry intent on finding a solution find it so hard to accept that regulatory enforcement appears the only way forward. We should all be pushing for this at every opportunity and not allow our political leaders or Banks to ignore this requirement .

Likewise with  Smiley's point re the Spanish Government doing its own thing and not necessarily having to comply with the rule of law according to their constitution….well the irony is that many perceived the European Commission as the last resort  "vehicle" to apply penalties and evoke procedures to act as disincentive - how wrong could we be?

The youtube footage by Roger Helmer back in April 2011 is a classic case in point of the ineffectiveness of the European Parliament to enact consumer protection for all citizens in Spain and enforce penalties as a means to apply pressure on the Spanish Government to comply with “the rule of law”. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrBbZOaqGE

With this in mind, the sooner that Jo public (or Manuel as the case may be! ) understands how important this lack of effective monitoring and  enforcement of regulatory controls plays in the wider scheme of things, the better.

JD01 suggested that those in power have too much to lose by enforcing regulatory controls ….. well we should all be making the point that they will have far more to lose if they DON’T enforce regulatory controls, through our ability to collectively remove them from power if they fail to listen and respond to our growing concerns.

No longer can those in power rely on the ignorance of citizens and hide behind the complexity of financial systems. We know now how fraudulent activities are impacting directly on our lives and we know now that they have failed to enforce regulatory controls in place to protect from the outset….. we should all be shouting from the rooftops of the need for more effective monitoring systems and for  regulatory controls to be enforced.  

 





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03 Jul 2012 11:01 by D_B_S Star rating. 178 posts Send private message

ads,

a good summary of what is required to bring in some type of rule to the current position for the Banks.

From the point of view of someone who spent all their working life in 'Banking' the last 20 developing instruments designed to be used by the Hedge Funds but also used by many ' Investment Partners',  unless you have global agreement it will be difficult for a country or indeed a 'club' of countries to resist the temptation to 'host' financial services with light regulation since it provides significant easy tax take for government(s).

What joe public gets to hear about are the failures be they caused by rougue traders, lack of compliance, lack of oversight or use of instruments that are based on other complex instruments. If people really knew the complex interweb that underpins the Financial Services industry they would be needing paramedics.

Glad I'm out of it and watching from afar.

David

 



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03 Jul 2012 15:01 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

DBS, you mention  a complex interweb, well is it so difficult to use this opportunity to simplify and reform a system that has failed so spectacularly?

This complexity and interweb that you refer to is the means by which all too many have hidden their fraudulent activites, so it isn't exactly rocket science (or is it?) to conclude that when you have a failing system of this magnitude its essential to step outside the box, so to speak, review and reform those areas that are the cause of failure?

In other words is it not possible to simplify the system by eradicatng those areas open to abuse? If this was possible then wouldn't this responsible and more stable financial environment attract investment partners which would act as an incentive for others to follow suit? Or is that too simple or naive a suggestion on my part?

 





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03 Jul 2012 15:32 by D_B_S Star rating. 178 posts Send private message

Ads,

Somethings are simple to understand such as asset backed securities such as the mortgage backed instruments that went so wrong in the US. Others such as CfD's and the like are more difficult - how can you make a turn on assets you don't own, are a little more difficult, and how would anyone by a product if they don't know who owns or the value of the underlying asset, not too mention some of the classes used by Hedgies.

You are right it is an opportunity, but an opportunity for what? Spain has little interest in some of the instruments used, but the US, UK, Germany and many others do have interest, a self interest in keeping the status quo. as do most of the Investment Funds that underpin the Insurance and Pensions of many throughout the world.

It could be simplifies but the industry (FS) still recruits the best minds from Oxbridge each year to ensure the instruments become even more complex and provide the opportunity to make money for individuals and institutions. So yes some instuments are as complex as rocket science, maybe too complex for the management or compliance team of an instution to understand. But if it's legal and going to make money they may not want to understand the complex nature of the product.

Not sure all are in it for fraud reasons - would suggest the Black Economy of Greece, Spain and UK are better places to look for that, but it's certainly the case that all of us involved were interested in profits and the year end bonus. Some of us were even interested in producing the 'most complex' instrument we could dream-up.

To unravel what has been built since deregulation is not impossible but who has an interest in doing so?

As I said glad I'm out of it and living a quiet retirement on the proceeds from the last 20 years of complex financial instruments.

David



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03 Jul 2012 19:34 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

For those interested in taking a more proactive approach to the Banks' investigation, please see the following:

http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/m/74c05426/2d4b6161/5c7166b6/46708b2e/913603687/VEsH/

(38 degrees is UK based campaign organisation).
 


This message was last edited by ads on 03/07/2012.



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04 Jul 2012 12:22 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

according to "Inside Job" there was no rocket science just simple fraud and corruption - complete dishonesty if you like.

it may be complex to design a rocket ship, a building or the titanic, but if the designer is dishonest from the outset and intent to deceive then he is a criminal, whatever benefit he receives.

if your complex instruments were designed to deceive then you should be in jail not feather-bedded retirement.

sorry to be blunt but the citizen needs to act for change.

go to it Ads

Regards

Norman


 


This message was last edited by normansands on 04/07/2012.


This message was last edited by normansands on 04/07/2012.

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04 Jul 2012 12:55 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

DBS

You say "To unravel what has been built since deregulation is not impossible but who has an interest in doing so? "

I'd like to know if it's not impossible, then how could it be done, and what impact on Jo public would ensue?

Someone has to stand outside the box and review this complex mess that has been born from the minds you refer to. One thing appears clear, is that these Oxford minds have to be reminded that the Banks should serve society as a whole.

To continue with ever increasing complexity, requiring ever increasing regulation is no way to proceed, and the sooner we all recognise the writing on the wall, the better.

p.s.Perhaps "inside job" should be required viewing for all, to act as an educative tool in the processl! .

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/inside_job_2010/ (108 minutes to watch).
 


This message was last edited by ads on 04/07/2012.


This message was last edited by ads on 04/07/2012.


This message was last edited by ads on 04/07/2012.



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04 Jul 2012 14:54 by georgia Star rating in Algorfa (As seen on .... 1835 posts Send private message

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 I read the Headline and expected to read about the British Government,the Bank of England and the British banking system......i think it fits quite well??!!



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04 Jul 2012 15:07 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

Yes Georgia, this relates to banking across the board.

We are all affected by lack of effective monitoring systems and enforceable regulatory controls, and we should all be working together to get the Banks and our political leaders to respond to the failures of the Banking industry.


 


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04 Jul 2012 15:11 by georgia Star rating in Algorfa (As seen on .... 1835 posts Send private message

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 That beast is far too big to tame i am afraid....but good luck trying!



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05 Jul 2012 10:19 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

Looks as though those who acted unethically in Barclays were incentivised by their own gain as their bonuses were linked to the profitability of their book and not of the Bank (no surprise there then)......also there doesn't appear to have been any effective monitoring system by the compliance group within the Bank to pick up on the collusion that was taking place before their eyes re falsifying libor. The lack of personal culpability re the failure to establish an effective failsafe system beggars belief and begs many questions as to the unethical culture within the Banking industry... why for instance did those who knew the wrongs that were taking place and must have been fully aware of the implications to this fraudulent activity not whistle blow? Isn't it inevitable that so long as bonuses exist in their present form that there will always be a conflict of interest? 

 





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05 Jul 2012 19:05 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Now now Ads, don't be unkind, Mr Diamond in his mealy-mouthed performance told you how much he "loves" Barclays especially the wonderful people there.

He is clearly not expecting any whistle-blowers, or was he just saying speak to me first, I have wads of largesse to distribute.

I would like to know did he affect my mortgage and by how much, is it just a question of stealing a farthing off everyone and not very serious?

In the event that it is more than a farthing, how do I get my fingers around his neck?

The revolution needs agents with "licence to kill badges".

Regards

Norman


 


This message was last edited by normansands on 05/07/2012.

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05 Jul 2012 20:22 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

This article might provide an answer to your query Norman.  http://www.ftadviser.com/2012/07/03/mortgages/mortgage-data/libor-fixing-beneficial-for-mortgage-borrowers-4OL1kb3UxYoN3Mt93eJ9wN/article.html

 and this is quite an eye opener :
http://www.saveoursavers.co.uk/bank-of-england/the-happy-bank-of-england-pensioners/

Here's some snippets of information from the article...... this might explain the situation why the government do not appear to be overly concerned about the effects of quantative easing on our pensions.

"In 2007, the average pension fund had over half of its portfolio invested in equities. Not so, the Bank’s fund, which sold its entire 21.6% holding of UK equities late that year, coincidentally avoiding a precipitous crash in the stock market as the financial crisis hit. The fund moved heavily into index-linked gilts, which protect against rises in inflation. From a proportion of 25.6% in index-linked securities in Feb 2007, it rose in successive years to 70.7%, 88.2% and 94.7% with a figure of 94.8% in February 2011, the last period for which we have details.

According to a report from NYB Mellon earlier this year, UK pension funds in general have almost tripled holdings of index-linked gilts to 15% over 10 years “reflecting the heightened concern over the future path of inflation”. The Bank of England has never revealed why, instead of the industry average of 15%, their pension fund holds an extraordinary 94.7% in index-linked securities and have no equities whatsoever, when the average holding is 45%. ".........

"How can the MPC possibly appreciate the true consequence of depressing interest rates and gilt yields through Quantitative Easing when it is so comfortably insulated from the realities of life by its remarkable and untypical pension scheme? Would it not be much better for the country at large – and the MPC’s own credibility – if its members were required to have private pensions?"............

And should the same not apply to MPs? No wonder they do not regard fixing the private pension system with any degree of urgency when they have such gold-plated pensions?

We keep being told that we are all in this together. When it comes to pensions, that is very much not the case. "


This message was last edited by ads on 05/07/2012.


This message was last edited by ads on 05/07/2012.



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05 Jul 2012 21:01 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Oh dear, wrong again Norman!!!!!

That nice Mr Diamond was helping me out with my interest only mortgage at 75 years young, what a very nice man.

Further more, when my kids have to pay it off, thanks to that other nice man Mr. King and his QE they will be able to do it with one of those nice interest free period credit cards and hardly notice it.

It looks like in spite of losing my life's savings, the crooks and their accomplices only did in advance what Mr King was planning for me anyway.

So where can I get a really big mortgage and take full advantage buying a money spinner like a residential care home for retiring bankers or some such???

Did Robin Hood keep most of it for himself + cronies and only give 0.0001% to the poor just like these crooks?

the need for the revolution is becoming more and more urgent - where can I sign up?

we need a clean slate....

"we urgently need a citizens' revolution, complete with guillotine and concentration camps for the lot of them where indeed will we find honesty and integrity in public life?"

I left my comment thank you Ads as above I wonder if it will pass vetting?

Regards

Norman

 



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08 Jul 2012 09:03 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

For those interested here's the latest from 38degrees campaign group relating to the call for Banking Reform in the UK.

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/fix-banking





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09 Jul 2012 01:10 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

Is Norman right or wrong???????????????

Under the crooks rule am I better off as a borrower or a saver??????????????

If this man is right.......massive inflation will wipe out my mortgage, perhaps even before I die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even the crooks who stole my savings will see them devalued if they have been silly enough to save them for me!!!!!!!!

Perhaps even that nice  Mr King will see his massive pension pot wiped down markedly???????

What is in store for us??????

This Shah chappie seems to think he knows>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Editor's Note: Shah wrote this piece on Friday for Forbes, but told me he wants to make sure  all of his Insights & Indictments readers get to see it, too. He's making a very bold call to action. Enjoy.]

            Central Banks are the Problem
            by Shah Gilani
 
            Dear Reader,

The Libor  scandal is about to get a whole lot worse.

And that's the good news...

Not only are at least 20 more big banks under investigation  as part of a massive fraud to manipulate interbank lending rates that affect  some $800 trillion in loans and derivatives, but the Bank of England is about  to take center stage in the scandal.

And that's bad news for central banks around the world.

Well, actually, it could be good news, as in really good  news, if it's the beginning of the end of what central banks do to manipulate  free markets to the benefit of their only real constituents, the world's big  banks.

First the good news.

It's already come out that traders at Barclays with huge  derivatives positions leaned on co-workers who sit on "panels" that submit  internal bank borrowing cost data to Thompson Reuters. And Reuters averages the  middle lot of submissions to determine Libor (London Interbank Offered Rate)  "fixings" (not my word, but actually the established nomenclature for what it  apparently is that they do... as in "fix" rates). And it's all under the auspices  of the British Banking Association.

What's good is that we now know for a fact that the traders  (crooks?) were aided and abetted by their co-workers, the submitters (crooks?),  who were overseen by managers and top executives who design most of these  schemes (crooks?), and were all blessed by the British Banking Association, an  illustrious association of 200 some-odd banks, whose many members (crooks?) are  panel members submitting crooked (no question mark necessary) data.

Still don't get why that's good news?

Because  it's proof there are crooks out there. And this time it's easy to see  where the "fix" actually occurs.

It's also good news because, according to one multinational  banking executive, just quoted in The  Economist, it's "the banking industry's tobacco moment."

He was referring to the potential mountain(s) of litigation  being drawn up already to claim that gross manipulation of interest rates  caused billions, maybe trillions, of dollars of harm to borrowers and financial  players of all stripes.

Remember, back in 1998, Big Tobacco had to settle  class-action suits related to death and injury from cigarettes and other  tobacco use. (These plaintiffs argued that tobacco companies knew of the health  risk of smoking and failed to warn consumers.) These lawsuits cost them over  $200 billion.

The bad news is the Bank of England, one of the world's  stalwart and oldest central banks, is about to face its own potential Lehman  moment (at least we can hope). That's on account of the fact that Paul Tucker,  deputy governor of the Bank of England (and its supposed next top dog), is  going to have to come clean in front of Parliament very shortly.

Mr. Tucker is apparently on record (according to Bob  Diamond's phone call notes) suggesting that the Bank of England wanted  Barclay's to manipulate it's Libor submissions downward so as to not panic  counterparties and the country who might view tight interbank lending  conditions as a sign of stress across the entire banking system.

So, here's why the bad news for the central bank  (encouraging, no, make that, demanding fraud) is really good news for free  markets.

Central banks have done nothing to countermand the trend  (nothing but encourage) leading to big banks getting bigger; so big, in fact,  that now all of the big banks around the world are all too big to fail.

The bigger the world's banks are (bankers want size, because   size equals more power to price, to manipulate markets, and to pay bigger  bonuses), the more important central banks become, both to the big banks,  nations, and the global economy.

Central banks are the saviors of big banks that get in  trouble, especially when systems and economies are leveraged for profits that  backfire, and they all have to be bailed out.

Central banks are supposed to be above what's going on below  their ivory towers, but, in fact, they are the puppets being manipulated by the  big banks. It's a case of the tail wagging the dog.

Why are central banks pouring money into banks, really? Why  aren't governments printing money to pour into ailing economies but instead  aiding and abetting central banks?

It's because central banks are independent supra-national  bodies who have been ceded monetary power by governments almost everywhere to  benefit banks and bankers the world over, who are their only constituents, and  for all intents and purposes, effectively "own" legislators and governments.

They're pouring money into banks to keep them solvent.  That's what central banks are there for. The banks aren't lending the money  (massive reserves are sitting on balance sheets to shore up appearances)  because they need it to meet reserve requirements and offset the illiquidity  evident in the interbank lending market... the same interbank (Libor) market that  the Bank of England wanted to make look more liquid than it was viscous back in  2008.

But it gets worse.

What will happen when the "multiplier effect" takes effect?  I'm talking about the potential for massive inflation when all those huge  quantities of reserves (stimulus) get lent out instead of shelved on balance  sheets.

How about massive inflation?

Heaven help us if all these macro crises are fixed quickly.  The flood of idle cash and credits globally will make past inflationary bursts  look like a 40-yard dash, compared to miles and miles of potential problems  ahead of us.

We need free markets, not manipulated markets. We need to  break up all the world's big banks so they can fail when they overleverage  themselves and entire systems, nations, economies, and the global economy  aren't all brought to their knees.

If we break up all the too-big-to-fail banks, we won't need  central banks. We can go back to what are supposed to be free markets dictating  interest rates and creating honest, open economies and opportunities everywhere.

Who's with me?

Shah

I am Mr Shah.........anyone else?????????????

Regards

Norman


 


This message was last edited by normansands on 09/07/2012.

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09 Jul 2012 10:00 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

This is the most worrying statement of fact

"central banks are independent supra-national  bodies who have been ceded monetary power by governments almost everywhere to  benefit banks and bankers the world over, who are their only constituents, and  for all intents and purposes, effectively "own" legislators and governments. "

I have a question for anyone to answer....Will saver's monies be safe in the process of allowing the too big to fail Banks to actually fail when they overleverage themselves. Will they still be protected (according to the limits identified) as we are led to believe? 





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09 Jul 2012 12:13 by haydngj Star rating in ALGORFA. 403 posts Send private message

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It seems very odd and a little suspect to me that the m.ps. are to investigate the bankers on the fiddle who not too long ago they were on the fiddle themselves. not on the fiddle now???? Boris the mayor has Mr Diamond as his finance advisor, will he have to look for another bent advisor?

in the end we peasants will always have to pay the bill and survive





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09 Jul 2012 13:02 by normansands Star rating in Kent. 1281 posts Send private message

I asked my mp to vote for a proper enquiry and he responded as follows..........

Dear Mr Sands,

 

        As it is now clear that the        transgressions emanated from the days of the Blair/Brown        government I must        confess that the prospect of Mr. Miliband calling for a        "independent"        inquiry did appeal to me enormously.  I        do, however, have considerable faith in the proposed joint        committee which,        chaired by Andrew Tyrie - not known for his acquiescence - is        likely to do as        efficient and probably much more expeditious job. I,        accordingly,  supported        the Government`s proposal.

 

Yours,

Sir Roger        Gale, MP

North        Thanet.

I then watched the "first names toady session" that effectively let him off from any serious charges or "transgressions" and would agree that it was all very much suspect.

However it is all we have got and perhaps a "star" with a bit of straight talking gumption will emerge, although it all goes to show how badly we need the revolution with zero-tolerance to all dishonesty.

Regards

Norman


 


This message was last edited by normansands on 09/07/2012.

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17 Aug 2012 14:14 by ads Star rating. 4015 posts Send private message

I will ask the question(s) again:

DBS

You say "To unravel what has been built since deregulation is not impossible but who has an interest in doing so? "

I'd like to know if it's not impossible, then how could it be done, and what impact on Jo public would ensue?

Someone has to stand outside the box and review this complex mess that has been born from the minds you refer to. One thing appears clear, is that these Oxford minds have to be reminded that the Banks should serve society as a whole.

To continue with ever increasing complexity, requiring ever increasing regulation is no way to proceed, and the sooner we all recognise the writing on the wall, the better.

p.s.Perhaps "inside job" should be required viewing for all, to act as an educative tool in the processl! .

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/inside_job_2010/ (108 minutes to watch).

Also

Will saver's monies be safe in the process of allowing the too big to fail Banks to actually fail when they overleverage themselves. Will savers still be protected (according to the limits identified) as we are led to believe? 
How will this be managed? Nationalising Banks under emergency measures? Rationing of moniesin the interim? This all sounds like a sci-fi novel, but it would be interesting to know what options would be available to allow a Banking system to continue rather than the pack of cards collapsing scenario.. . 

Where are the bright minds when you need them?





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