Community Administrators

Tadd

I can speak Spanish, I'm told (by Spanish) quite well. I don't however wish to go on a 3/5 year course to gain fluency.

I don't wish to debate the merits of the HPA, I think we all know your views on that. Just saying that our administrator is worth every cent we pay him.

LATE MINUTES, We have an english speaking contact at our Administrator, who is very pleasent to talk to but it seems that the mails I have sent may be bypassing her. After meeting her in at the end of April, I asked about the January minutes, she spoke to another person in the office but still we have not received any minutes. I mailed again Friday in SPANISH but still no minutes have arrived.

Our new President is aware of the situation but unable to obtain these minutes. As he was almost forced into becoming our President, I feel the administrators are giving him very little help. I must say though the administrator company are fighting our case with the courts to sort the Builder out & also obtained our personal Meters which we are very thankful for. Hopefully soon we may have the Habitation Certificates but that has been said several times.

TeamGB

If you are happy then OK and i am pleased you have the spare funds to give away and are happy you get good service  - just remember some people don't have much in the way of spare funds and the money they are forced to pay could help in other ways

You do not need to go on a 3 to 5 year course to obtain fluency it was simply an example of what we can do if we try - many can speak multiple languages fluently without going to uni etc.

Sadly many British are not very good (or simply too lazy) at learning a language, even the basics, and that is very clear and sad here in the costas (residents and visitors) - but that is another topic

Learning the process of how to do the admin for a community would not take 3 to 5 years and it is easily done

Tadd

please do not take this in wrong way, but do you actually get involved or help out in a Community?

you obviously are aware the all Presidents and Comittee members are all owners like yourself and are generally volunteers.

why would they want to take on more responsibility in running a complicated Community Structure themselves for NO reward?

just because a Community is made up of different language speakers, how exactly do you get them to work together in a Community of holiday homes?

the fees CostaBlade suggested, appear to be approx standard for an Administrator to run accounting systems, manage bank accounts, issue invoices and direct debits, chase up late or non payers, deal with structural and repair matters, negotiate with all suppliers and contractors, deal with the many owners different concerns, advise on legal matters, deal with insurance claims, security etc. etc.

i am always amazed at owners who think a handful of other owners can and are prepared to devote themselves full time rather than attempt to find a useful Administrator the Community can work with.

forget asking local Town Halls, most are insolvent anyway and will just refer you back to HPA, which like it or not is legal.

have you tried changing the traditions here?

hugh

Yes I have been invovled in the past and we did get rid of our adminstrators and the community is far better off. We have all paperwok checked by a solictor for a very small fee prior to submission and yes we were volunteers and the exisiting committe still are. Volunteering to do the best for our community and the area we live in. We have had our problems (including non payers but 95% are up to date as of this years accounts) but they have all been handled well and sensibly within the legal framework of the HPA.

Yes the HPA is legal and we have to live by it (sadly) but you do not have to have a paid administrator - which is my main point, it is easy to do it yourselves.

Not all communities are 100%  holiday homes.

It may be a suprise that many urb's in Spain the majority of the owners are Spanish (maybe not the costas) - amazing but true

edited to add

When we got rid of admin we reduced the fees for all owners by 40% and we now have a very healthy surplus

Sadly we need our Administrator who has in the last 4 years worked hard with our previous Hard working president. Just wish they would send all the owners the January 2015 minutes, 

Our Spanish home is on a complex in a lovely Village with a council that in the last 8 year not been interested in helping with the problems the complex has suffered. Because we had no Habitation Certificate the police refused to help with the squatters that left so much damage. The Road cleaners have not cleaned the street outside our complex obviously because we are not in part of the Village even though the apartment Block building next door is in the village boundary. We have paid the Sumo tax etc. since we purchased. This year have received permission to erect the electricity power unit for the Utility company to supply our individual meters this has to be paid for from our community fund & will cost thousands. Maybe one day the courts will sort out the builder and claim back the debt he owes each and every family that originally purchased in 2007-8. We will then be able to enjoy the Holiday Home we bought wen we retired at the are of 65. Just hope I live long enough to enjoy life in Spain. 

The Village is a lovely place to be as all the facilities are available even a Public Swimming pool, Banks, Supermarket,s, Bars & Library and so many other businesses & the local Spanish people are so friendly.

This message was last edited by Poedoe on 21/06/2015.

Where are the same as you Tadd1966, yes our situation is different to other communitys and very lucky, we don´t have gardens, pools, security etc, but in the begining we had a Administrator for 3 years, got all the set up of a community out of them, picked their brains on how to run a community etc then did not employee them after that,7 years down the line all is fine. However you still can´t get it into some peoples thick heads we are a Community and come under HPL.

 Voted in a new President last year, though we went down the line of ways to vote somebody in i.e 1) Volunters,2) names out of the hat,3) next property,all voted against so it was next alpahbet surname voted yes, minutes done and new president to collect Actos and other paper work, bank details,owners details etc, incoming president refuses to accept this for a number of reasons, i.e We don´t have to be a community, I was not at the meeting etc, hence 1 month away from AGM and I know nothing will get done, he was given and explained to him (and the rest of the community) if he is not happy with vote to go to a Judge at his own expense and explain to the court why he thinks he is above the law. We are only 43 houses if there is a couple in each house, President dutys are once every 86 years whats the problem, as you say it´s the law, like it or lump it, you brought on a community do your homework before you buy in Spain.  

Tadd

I do not disagree with you, all,Coomunities in Spain are very different, which is why generalisation is to be avoided.

you may have been very lucky with the make up of your Community and age, older ones tend to have less problems than later builds where speculators made up a big proportion of buyers.

apathy in owners own Community is also a major problem, as Nitram says, getting volunteers can be a nightmare.

as an example our Community an even mix of Spanish and European mainly Brit and Irish but very much a holiday resort now as few residents moved in is 288 apartments with a budget of over 350k euros.

we are lucky to see 20 owners at any meeting and most do not have the time to be involved in running it.

at a very important recent EGM only 20 turned up representing 13 apartments and the proxies with a direction of how to vote amounted to just 30.

yes of course it is possible to in affairs without professional help but can be very time consuming and is over reliant on a few volunteers.

my Committee have been very responsible for many of the positive changes we made in our Vommunity and we had been somewhat disappointed with the support from Spanish Administration.

from experience, I can tell you attempting to change the traditional Spanish approach was not a happy affair as all the big guns to keep the status quo were brought into play and I suddenly realised how tough it is to take on the establishment here and introduce modern business practice.

maybe it will happen soon as their politics represent a similar trait but probably not in my lifetime.

Only thing i would add to my points on using administrators to do your books and keep you on the right side of the law is.

If you ran a business [and i did] would i do my own accounts or would i use an accountant ?

You would most definitely use an accountant, if you didn't want the tax authorities jumping all over you.

I also out sourced my day to day book keeping, which for me meant i could concentrate on the business side of things knowing my accounts were up to date for inspection by the VAT and tax authorities should they come "knocking"

It just made good business sense to me, and not once in over 20 years was my company was every caught out by the authorities.

It's the same here, we run a good community, legal and very much solvent, and a lot of that credit goes to the administrators.... and me for being a diligent President by the way, you could call a President a Managing Director as he\she is the sole legal representative of the community, by employing an administrator the President can fully conentrate on the business..., AKA running the community.

So there is my comparison to how i ran a business [in the UK and my reason for running the way we do in our community in Spain],  

Why would you do it any other way just to save a few pounds.

PS I knew a number of business' that ran the way Tadd explains, doing their own books etc, funnily enough they seemed to be the ones that ran into trouble. 

Returning to the OPs problem. I would just go after your administrators until they supply the information you want, and at the next AGM sack them.

and keep sacking until you find a good one.

When i did this i interviewed Three administrators, found the one i felt was best for our community. Then took an accountant| owner with me for a second interview, he approved, we took it to the AGM, sacked the old administrator and employed our new one.. now that was easy !! and i have to say enjoyable to get rid of our very poor and dubious previous administrators.

This message was last edited by CostaBlade on 21/06/2015.

costablade

I undesrtand yoru veiw but I do not agree

Even your own company it would depend on the size. If you were multi million turnover then yes get an accountant but a small businnes upto say 500K turnover doing your own accounts is not diffcult or time consuming (I have done both). With the smaller turnover I used an accountant at first then learnt and started doing my own, occasionally I paid a small fee for meetings with an accountant just to check regulations updates, annual returns, tax filing, paye and VAT etc. and saved myself a few quid and got a lot of help from my bank, inland revenue and research (all free). The secret good records, copies of everything and understanding of the processes and obligations involved

By all means do it whatever way suits you but please remember others may have a different view and a different budget - a few quid (or euros) may mean a lot more to others than it may do to you

How long should professional administrators take to send out the minutes of a short extraordinary meeting at which they were appointed.  I think 4 weeks + & still no minutes is far too long.

The Law states 10 days but not often adhered to.

Many thanks for your replys, We visited the Administrators office in Almiraldi in May and asked for the Minutes, we still do not have them. now August 7 months later. Do ANY professional companies in Spain abide by the information law. I very much doubt & All very frustrating. We would like to trust our Administrator but after 8 years the trust  is wareing very thin. We also pay all out community fees up to date.

Change your administrators. We used to have one in Almoradi (forgotten their name now) and changed some years ago. They were totally incompetent and were making undeclared payments to some presidents in the community. It was easy to change and saved a bit of money in community fees as well.

Assuming that the info here about the period they have to inform you is correct, I suggest to go to the offices and ask for (insist) the complaints forms. Do not be dissuaded by any promises.  Complete them,

One copy is you them,   you keep 2.

If you have not received satisfaction within 2 weeks take the copy marked consumers office to that office in the town hall. They will the take action for you.

I suspect you will get satisfaction without having to go to the town hall.

Largely agree, but personally I would send them a bureaufax first giving them 7 days to produce the minutes and out of courtesy let the President know your intentions.  In effect, letting them know you're serious and a last chance.

I can assure you that completing the complaints form shows you are serious.

If you get satisfaction within 2 weeks then you do not take the consumers office copy to the town hall.   

 If you just fax them and they do nothing you have wasted at least another week.

From experience, I have used the forms several times and assisted several others to do so too, even with the National Police, I know that often immediate satisfaction is obtained.  No one who knows the problems they will incur will usually let the Consumer's Office get involved.

In Spain a bureafax sent from the Correos office is similar to a recorded delivery letter that we have in the UK.  This may add substance to the complaint form process.   By doing so the recipient cannot deny they were aware of the situation.

It's a matter of opinion, but it's what I would do.  Arguably it's belt and braces, but puts the onus on them to explain themselves, which in an adversarial situation is a nicer starting point .

OK each one has their own idea, unfortunately Acer demonstrates that he clearly does not know what the Complaints System (which every establishment in Spain must comply with) is for,  nor how it works.

It has nothing to do with confirming that one has informed someone.   It is requesting that someone put right a wrong, including failure to provide a service, as in this case.

It would appear that the Administrators are fully aware of the request for the minutes, the problem is that they have failed to provide them. 

That is exactly the kind of situation  (one of them)  that the Complaints Procedure is for.

I do not think I can be more specific, so over and out.

John,

You seem to be amongst an increasing band on EOS that seems desperate to always be right - but often there is more than one solution to a problem and it does no harm to let the OP have different options - "over and out"