Buying & Owning a car for a non-resident

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11 Mar 2010 10:36 PM by TechNoApe Star rating in Duquesa, Manilva. 1277 posts Send private message

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Sanchez1,

Yup!

And as you said, it's great when Myra comes on and puts things into the correct perspective.

As you can see, I've made more, somewhat larger assumptions in my last post!!!!!

But, but..... What do you mean that Disney is not coming to Spain.... of course it is!



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12 Mar 2010 8:35 AM by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

 

"Taking your vehicle abroad for more than 12 months (permanent export)"

"When a vehicle registered in the United Kingdom (UK) is taken out of the country for 12 months or more, it’s regarded as being permanently exported from the UK."

As they replied to my e-mail & I posted ,they consider a vehicle returning for a short period & then leaving again as permanently exported & should have been notified as such. Regardless of the fact that you may have a UK house pay tax etc: They also include motorhomes in this which is why I have asked the question, "where then do you register it" as many people travel from country to country ,only returning for mot's. In fact I know people who have nothing else except a UK reg. motorhome that is taxed, mot'd & insured & only returns for its mot. Years ago , before all this nonsense we  had only a motorhome @ one point.

 

The fact that you have a UK house, pay tax &  ni there, these days means nothing. Anyone out of the country more than 6 mths, including long term travellers, loses their right to UK healthcare & is meant to re-register on their return. 

"Now then, remember what I said about that a UK citizen, who can legally live in Spain for 10 months out of every consecutive twelve months without having to legally move residence between countries!"  

No, the Spanish authorities would consider you as a Spanish resident. In many regions they class anyone with an nie as resident.

I can no longer take my Spanish car to the UK for more than 6 mths. without re-reg. it under UK law & when stopped , have to be able to prove by way off ferry tickets that it hasn't been there for more than 6 mths othrwise it's confiscated.

 

Myra, If you only have one eye you are still entitled to a Spanish license ( depending on the vision in the other eye! ) but restricted to 100kph on the autovias. High blood pressure means that the period that the licence lasts is often reduced sometimes not for the car but for groups C, C1,+E. ( large vans + towing a trailer up to 8,25 tons. ) The brother of my neighbour has to renew his licence every year for medical reasons.

Unfortunately  I did used to do this regularly  some years ago, but the sheer aggravation from people who always know best  wasn't worth the stress levels.As I said before you haven't got to convince me , I know, or anybody else on forums, you're only trying to convince yourselves & at the end of the day it's the Trafico officer on the side of the road ,or God forbid, in the event of a serious accident where death is involved, the Judge in court.,& ignorance is no defence.

 

 



This message was last edited by guslopez on 12/03/2010.

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12 Mar 2010 10:25 AM by semijubilada Star rating in London/Torrevieja. 1052 posts Send private message

I found this on another forum which may prove helpful.  It does contain some factual information as well as other peoples understanding.

http://www.torrevieja.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60578

It still doesn't deal with the OP question.

I agree it all depends on how the Traffico officer is feeling at the time you are stopped.

Logically non-resident owner drivers should be treated the same as if you were driving a hire car but will they?  Only time will tell but it does seem that those of us who still use paper licences will have to change to a photo one.  That's if I have understood the Spanish listed in the link above.

Shame I was hoping to keep my for another year and change it when I'm 60, saves a lot of hassle having to renew it for one year only when I'm 69 





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12 Mar 2010 11:08 AM by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

Hi semijubilada, just remember that when you get to 69 & want to renew your UK licence you'll need a UK address to send it to. A 70 year old wanting to change to a Spanish license only has a 3mth. period after their b/day + needs a letter from the DVLA of their entitlement. Without those you can't exchange & must take a Spanish test. Both parts. A woman I know  (68) who had a licence issued in Jersey and was unable to exchange it decided that it was easier to take the test now than wait until she was 70. Passed @the 3rd attempt, 12months,4 medicals & a 1000+euros.



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12 Mar 2010 12:28 PM by Geoff y Pat Star rating in Torre Guil / Sutton .... 90 posts Send private message

Hi everybody, there has been 45 posts on this subject so far and I am still confused.  I am 63 (in two weeks) we have a Spanish car, I have a UK photocard licence, NIE numbers and we are registered on the Padron in Murcia.   Do I need a medical certificate to drive in Spain or not?  Or is it safer to pay the 30 or so euros and get one?

Geoff  





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12 Mar 2010 2:05 PM by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

Yes, & for 30 odd euros it's peace of mind.



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12 Mar 2010 2:42 PM by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

This is from my last reply from the DVLA,

" I can confirm that all vehicles, if taken outside the UK for more than 12 months, should be notified as exported, regardless of whether the keeper still has a UK address."

"This would include motorhomes."

As I said I asked the question regarding where you would register it  & posed the thought in an earlier post that I thought that they had backed themselves in to a corner. From the reply that I have just received it seems a good guess. I think the "Specialist department "is going to have to invent something. I can't wait to see the reply to this!

Dear Mr Lopez

 For us to deal with your enquiry correctly and fully we will need to pass your email to a specialist department for further investigation.

 DVLA will send a full reply within 10 working days. If it is going to take longer to provide you with a reply, we will let you know.

 

This is a system generated response to your email enquiry. Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our Reply Form or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:



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12 Mar 2010 3:01 PM by kev2006n Star rating in Sussex and Playa Fla.... 344 posts Send private message

 Phew! I knew it would be a bag of worms. I am a UK resident, UK paper driving licence, own a property in Spain and holiday 10 weeks or so each year. If I was to take my car to Spain in September and bring it back in late June and then repeat the process does anyone think I'm doing anything wrong? In the meantime the car will be insured, Road Tax and MOT if needed. I could take a different car out the second time? Are there any problems other than a lot of driving and cost! Kevin





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12 Mar 2010 3:13 PM by FibbyUK Star rating in UK, Surrey & Playa F.... 2349 posts Send private message

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 We just bought a car in Spain, we are Non Resident

You cannot sign on the Padron if you are Non Resident.

You cannot be resident in more than one country.

We did all the paperwork via a Gestoria for 250€, this includes the Traffico costs for transfer.

I had to show my Escritura, NIE original, the car's paperwork and have the seller with me to sign the papers.

The seller had to have either their NIE original paper OR their Recidencia Card.

The car had to have a valid ITV, or at least one that would not expire during the transfer process.

ITV is equivalent to the UK's MOT, cars under 11 years old have an ITV every 2 years, over 11 years old it's every year.

The Gestoria then gives you a 60 day cover note whilst Traffico change the paperwork to your name.

You can of course do all this via a dealer, who will charge about the same as a Gestoria.

Insurance, full comprehensive is not too expensive, about 325€ per year, includes breakdown cover and any driver over 26yrs old.

All in all, much cheaper than a hire car.

But make sure there are no outstanding fines etc., on the car, because you will be liable.

Use a trust worthy dealer and beware of private sales.

I hope this helps..............



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12 Mar 2010 4:40 PM by carolandrichard Star rating in West Yorkshire and P.... 93 posts Send private message

Totally confused about all this now, and want to be totally legal when driving in Spain. Either a hire car for a week or so at a time, or my own UK car when we drive down for the summer. I emailed my lawyer and she has informed me that I DO need a medical certificate to drive legally in Spain. So, I guess that's that then.

Incidentally, as an insulin dependant diabetic I have to renew my UK licence every three years, I have just gone through that process, completed details about my condition, and any changes to it, have had to have a detailed eye test (I have one every year), the DVLA contacts my GP for whatever information they need and it has gone through no problem. So, in addition to doing this every three years in the UK, looks like I will also need to complete something in Spain every so many years, five I think I read for under 45s.





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12 Mar 2010 5:11 PM by kev2006n Star rating in Sussex and Playa Fla.... 344 posts Send private message

 Fibby UK, Ah common sense at last. Just need to find a reasonable priced Spanish car!

CarolandRichard, as you seem to need a comprehensive medical every three years, it would indeed seem not needed in Spain. You infact are being tested more often in the UK than in Spain. Did you explain that to your lawyer?

Kevin





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12 Mar 2010 5:20 PM by FibbyUK Star rating in UK, Surrey & Playa F.... 2349 posts Send private message

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 Why, lordy me, thanks for the compliment Kevin!!

We bought a UK car "bible", it gives make, model, year and a selling price guide.

Spain is not THAT much dearer than the UK for cars, as it goes.............

We bought privately, but via my Sister in Law who lives in Spain, so we knew the book price and car history.

One word of advice, if you live on the coast, look INLAND.

Most dealers on the coast, know, if you are Non Resident British, (I think the vest tops in December give it away), and will "hike" their prices to aim at this market.

Inland dealers will normally be selling to the Spanish and have more sensible prices.



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12 Mar 2010 5:25 PM by carolandrichard Star rating in West Yorkshire and P.... 93 posts Send private message

Hi Kev

Explaining it to my lawyer is one thing - but can you imagine trying to explain it to the Guardia when they pull me over for whatever they fancy?

I do not want to have to pay a fine for not having a Spanish medical certificate - Nor do I want to be in an accident whether it is my fault or not and discover that because I do not have a Spanish medical certificate (which sounds like a mickey mouse certificate) then my UK licence is void which means I am then driving without a licence which means they can then put me in jail immediately for six months. And then imagine if said accident caused a serious injury or fatality!!!! Nah, I'll just pay the 30 euros, and so will the husband!!

The joys of owning a property in Spain eh!!?

Next job is to buy a Spanish car and save on all those increasing hire car costs!





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12 Mar 2010 5:49 PM by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

Kevin2006n, No you'd be doing nothing wrong ,you're on holiday. Might be advisable to keep something in the car ( like I do in the UK )to prove when you came & when you are going home.

FibbyUK,no you can't be resident in two countries except when the authorities decide that you are .Ufortunately, here in Spain when you apply for an nie number you now get a combined Nie/residencia certificate & as I said before some regions treat an Nie holder as a resident. Your perfectly right re; going inland, even better is Madrid they're half the price of down here, far less kms,not beat to death & a bigger choice, Just the aggro of travelling.



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12 Mar 2010 6:00 PM by kev2006n Star rating in Sussex and Playa Fla.... 344 posts Send private message

 FibbyUK, Have you been following me around and it was January by the way! lol! Kevin





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12 Mar 2010 7:40 PM by FibbyUK Star rating in UK, Surrey & Playa F.... 2349 posts Send private message

FibbyUK´s avatar

 guslopez

That surprises me about the combined NIE/Recidencia..............but if the rule has changed, it's changed.

But, you still cannot sifn on the Padron, I tried in January and was told no!

 

Kev2006n

OMG!

It was you I saw in the Commercial Centre then, shorts were a bit dodgy though   



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12 Mar 2010 8:04 PM by kev2006n Star rating in Sussex and Playa Fla.... 344 posts Send private message

 FibbyUk, You have to admit the legs are good! kevin





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12 Mar 2010 8:21 PM by FibbyUK Star rating in UK, Surrey & Playa F.... 2349 posts Send private message

FibbyUK´s avatar

 Kevin:

When you were dancing on the bar in Legends, they weren't bad, but the light in there is poor..................



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One off fee to pay your own La Renta tax (210 Form)
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12 Mar 2010 8:41 PM by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

Technoape your 10mth argument has just disappeared. Here is the definitive answer from the DVLA, specialist dept.

Dear Mr Lopez

Thank you for your email received on 11/3/10. Your email reference number is 278553.

 "European Union (EU) vehicles which are circulating temporarily within or between community Member States are allowed under EC Directive 83/182, to be used on public roads without the need to register or pay duties in the host country. These provisions limit visits to six months in a twelve-month period and the vehicle must comply with the registration and licensing requirements of its home country".

"We cannot comment on the registration and licensing requirements of other licensing authorities. You will need to check the domestic requirements with each individual authority".

I am sorry I cannot be more helpful.

The EC directive is here   http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/com_en.pdf       & Section III, B1b1, is the one that applies. This is the reason that they state that a vehicle can only be used in the country as a tourist /everyday work for a max. of 6 mths otherwise you will be classed as a resident. The vehicle has to be taken out of the country, You'll note the line    "must comply with the registration & licensing requirements of its home country."
 

 



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13 Mar 2010 2:15 AM by TechNoApe Star rating in Duquesa, Manilva. 1277 posts Send private message

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Hmm!

Guslopez,

It seems to me that your DVLA source is quoting from this letter to the DVLA. that is dated March 2007.

When you read this letter, you will see that it is the same as Guslopez's DVLA source is quoting, however this is pertinent to other EU registered vehicles in the UK.

As I stated, the UK Government, and the DVLA, allows for a UK registered vehicle to circulate in EU member states for up to twelve months, providing that the vehicle is:

a) Road legal and insured (with European "Green Card" cover) from a UK Insurance company

b) only used (driven) by the registered owner

and c) that the vehicle is registered to the owners UK address.


 



This message was last edited by TechNoApe on 13/03/2010.

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