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The son of long standing family friends has lived in all but one of the Scandinavian countries (currently Sweden), and reckons that they are watching the UK's Brexit progress with much interest, it may just be a case of how long the union manages to survive without major changes.
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Angela Merkel warns that the EU is in 'critical' condition as leaders hold their first meeting without Britain
- German chancellor warns that future of the Brussels club is at risk
- EU leaders gathering in Bratislava without Britain for the first time
- Will be discussing how to hold the Brussels club together in future
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"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
Micky - This was the question on the ballot paper. So Brexit is a success when we are no longer in the EU.
Battlebus moaners (and Perrypower) - The question said nothing about what we do with the saved contributions, so when they are available for whatever expenditure then Brexit is a success.
Immigration moaners - Again, when we are free to make our own decisions (whatever those decisions may be) on who enters and stays in our country then Brexit is a success.
We joined the EU because defeatist politicians felt that having lost our empire we were no long able to make our own way in the world. They were wrong and sold our freedom to join a sclerotic, beaurocratic, isolationist, corrupt and undemocratic organisation.
When we are again a free and democratic nation, then we will be back on the track we diverged from in 1972.
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I've been away for awhile, and just come back to see this front page, where a few quotes have caught my eye.
Hugh:
does not necessarily imply all £350 mill would be available. Stop bringing up that old chestnut and get on with it,
John:
Whether that claim was correct or not ,
It is patently clear, without dissembling, seeking out, or attempting to seek out, any serpentine nuance, that the claims are outright lies. We can all laugh about it, but the bald facts are, as a voting populace, our politicians have lied to us.
The £350m?
Immigration? The Australian-style system promised has been stopped. The government (either group, actually) refuse to put any credible numbers on immigration.
These are facts that we know for sure. Among other facts, markets have reacted negatively. Japan is querying their ability to do business in the UK, and the list goes on, if you but choose to look.
Maybe its just me, but I feel like I've been sold a complete lie, and the people who voted for it, whilst staunchly holding the course, I must wonder if privately they are beginning to at least acknowledge that decisions were taken without the truth.
And before we get the who "all politicians lie", we still, all of us, want the best outcome. This SHOULD be different from the least bad outcome.
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SHOW ME THE MONEY
Of course the money isn't there yet we are still feeding the Eu coffers and that will continue for around 3 years
Brexit was not a MAGIC PILL it's a long term treatment but so far we are on the mend
Lady MERKEL says EU is in a critical state so if one member ie UK leaves then BOOM begs the question what a house of cards it really is
Well done the British people for realising this and VOTING wisely
Love Hugh xxx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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It may be semantics and certainly was a play on words but the press often reported the incorrect message.
During the referendum campaign, Vote Leave issued posters reading: “Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week.” The campaign’s battlebus, outside which the former work and pensions secretary was frequently photographed, featured the slogan: “We send the EU £350 million a week – let’s fund our NHS instead.”
Lets fund the NHS instead does not necessarily imply all £350 mill would be available.
Stop bringing up that old chestnut and get on with it, wait for Brexit to take place, nothing much has changed currently except sterling slight weakness, which makes our exports more competitive and overseasinvestmentbin UK cheaper.
The French and Chinese investment in nuclear does not suggest uncertainty.
The whole of Europes economy is in a mess and currently the UK is one of their best customers.
The current pontificating of Junckers and colleagues is the sort of aggressive and bullyboy tactics we will actually get away from
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Perry Where is the £4.2billion that was going back into the NHS?
Whether that claim was correct or not , it can only start to happen when UK have LEFT THE EU. So far UK have not even started the process, Article 50, and when they do start it will be another two years before UK stop having to make payments to the EU.
(I do love the standard of awareness displayed in post ! )
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How will the Brexiteers quantify their vote to leave the EU as a success? Lower Sterling? A booming economy? Or is it less immigration?
I struggle to understand what they believe Britain is going to gain from it. ‘We have our country back’ cried Farage. What tosh the British already had their countries sovereignty hence the power to leave.
What tangible thing will you Brits gain? I know what you are going to lose but tell me where’s the beef?
How will Brexit benefit the individual’s life who sits on the top of the ‘Clapham omnibus’? The misconception during the referendum campaign was people were convinced they would actually be voting for something tangible. Instead all they did was vote against something which means you actually lose a great deal.
I know you can list all the nonsense politicians tell you about the EU controlling people’s everyday lives which is so much ether mist but in truth what will you now gain as a result of Brexit? Show me the money. Where are the millions gained per week for the NHS for example?
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 16/09/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Well ted,
Where is the £4.2billion that was going back into the NHS? That is what the outers claimed was going to happen by now (£350m x 12 weeks). What about the control of borders and no more EU migrants...that has not happened either; no slow down in EU migration as yet. Oh you say, that is because Brexit has not happened yet. It is a little too early to be crowing about how much the Remain campaign got it wrong. I say thank goodness that they did thus far, it means there is hope we don't go down the toilet. What is clear is that Brexiting was going to be a 'leap in the dark' and unless you are privy to some special knowledge unlike the rest of us, that is where we are sitting right now, in the dark. We don't know what is going to happen and the government is refusing to tell us what they are working on, and when it is starting. We will not get a say in what they decide. I hope BREXIT is a success. But the "Leaver I told you so's" need to keep stum until they can deliver because right now they have delivered zero
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Don't you think that might upset the 17odd mill who voted to leave the EU.
Not sure the EU will still be hanging in there by 2020 the way it's going elsewhere, especially with Mr Junckers absurd attitude.
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This might be right up Mickys Street, and he may have missed it because he wont read the peasants newspapers, that Welsh labour chap who wants to be the new labour leader when the general election takes place in 2020 has said that if he's made labour leader he will get the UK back into the EU and also join the Euro, considering that almost 5 million, or was it more? signed the government poll to get another vote, if that lot were to back him.....It might happen.
So it could be all good news for Micky if he can hang on long enough.
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Au Contraire, Micky has already tried that one.
What was predicted by project fear was the economy down the plughole. With pretty ........ outers doing their country down and revelling in the shortlived fall in the stockmarket. The crash, the emergency cuts in pensions, tax increasing budget and all the other crap have just not happened. Planned government expenditure has gone up (not sure that is a good thing but it is the opposite of project fear prediction).
Before the vote I fully expected that there would be an attempt to keep us in by changing our relationship.
This may yet happen as there are multiple elections and a referendum happening in countries in the EU in the next couple of years. Bruxelles may yet be negotiating revised terms for other countries.
Meanwhile Mrs May seems determined to move onwards. The three Brexiteers are planning their plans, the recruitment of lawyers and re-adjustment of the civil service has taken place and article 50 is pencilled in for January.
The general feeling here in the UK is that it will happen. Much to the joy or sadness of whichever party one belongs to. The frenzied talks of general elections and re-referendums have all but died out.
Political commentators are now expecting a done deal before the next general election.
We still get the odd soul who insists that it will take years to unravel all the EU based law but most now accept that it is just not necessary. It can all be done when we have our independence and democracy back.
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Well unless I have missed something major while I have been away - Brexit has not happened yet - has it? I think what was predicated was a steady falling behind - and I have not seen anything that convinces me that this will not happen. The reason the ship is steady, is because people are starting to think it may not happen!!
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'Baseless accusations'
Name them
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I think the EU has failed to communicate its core values to some sections of the population and especially within the UK. To counterbalance the Daily Mail tabloid media effect of constant anti EU propaganda was essential and it has never happened.
Why do you keep on about the Daily Mail like it's thee only newspaper that spouts lies and anti EU propaganda, they all do to a certain extent just to justify the papers existence, some lie to get out the EU, others lie to stay in the EU?
If you are constantly bombarded with populist, nationalist themes without a counter balance to consider there is only one result. It does not matter who is right or wrong, it’s the consequence of decision making that directly affects people’s lives.
Well, your mates did a fine job on that one, I wont mention the 'War' if we leave, the lies that came from Cameron and co were the best ever stupid rubbish told, and to say even if I could see that is an understatement.
These general objectives are supplemented by a list of more detailed objectives:
That is from your earlier post which is part of the EU charter of what should be done, shame only the UK for the most part kept to it, which is the main reason for the problems the EU has caused us, which also I will say again, only those who have lived here full time and through it know this, for years all we got told was 'Cant do that, against EU rules, Cant do this against EU rules' meanwhile many other EU countries stuck two fingers up to the rules, and got away with it, okay so we don't need to be told one more time that it was our leaders faults this happened.
You can read all the data you want, study every newspaper going, pass every exam on this that and the other, be an expert on what will happen, don't forget the other expert knew what would happen if we left, what he didn't know was that he was going to lose, his power, his perks, his top job, his respect from the UK people.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.......Something many are good at.
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I think the EU has failed to communicate its core values to some sections of the population and especially within the UK. To counterbalance the Daily Mail tabloid media effect of constant anti EU propaganda was essential and it has never happened. I see evidence of that on these threads. Baseless accusations in fact but believed and heartfelt acceptation by individuals.
People arrive at their own views by a variety of routes and I respect others opinions even when they differ from my own. However how they, you, me embraced those opinions and set them in stone is a relevant factor.
If you are constantly bombarded with populist, nationalist themes without a counter balance to consider there is only one result. It does not matter who is right or wrong, it’s the consequence of decision making that directly affects people’s lives.
Social exclusion from Europe will have consequences for a younger generation of British people. I hear it said that Britain is not leaving Europe just the EU. Well the fact is political and economic Europe is the EU. Barriers to trade and the free movement of people will differentiate Britain from the rest of Europe in years to come like it or not.
The nationalists of course will say that’s no bad thing. I say, like all forms of barrier they are disastrous for social cohesion, cooperation and understanding between peoples.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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EU = EUSSR - Fair shares and a fair deal for everyone, haha, EXCEPT the Politicians and the ruling class with their snouts in the trough getting most of everything, and to hell with the rest of us. Remember the book animal farm? Just the same as the EU.
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The economic and social damage will begin in mid-2017 and continue for years to come.
Wow - a stay of execution - we were supposed to be down the plug hole by now! Still the new forecast will allow the economic cycle to produce some sort of downturn we can blame on Brexit (please, please, pretty please says Micky).
The markets know it, (Sterling is a reflection of that)
Stirling is in fact above the line of the downward trend established between November 15 and the referendum.
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1. The EU shares it's wealth by giving the poorer member nations a greater slice of the cake to develop their infrastructure.
2. The ECB bails out nations in financial trouble.
1. I'm sure Greece will be happy to know that.
2. In 1992 the EU did Indeed bail out the Franc in the ERM. Trouble is it refused to do the same for the pound in 1993 leading to Britain's ejection from the ERM and massive profits for Mr Soros.
It is sobering to think however that, if we had been supported in 1993, we may have joined the Euro and with our massive debt been in the same position as Greece is now.
This all goes to underline the wisdom of the British people in their historic descision taken on June the 23rd.
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The EU shares it's wealth by giving the poorer member nations a greater slice of the cake to develop their infrastructure. The ECB bails out nations in financial trouble. Individual EU companies have wider access to funding from member state financial institutions. There is a collective security policy in which intelligence is shared.
These general objectives are supplemented by a list of more detailed objectives:
- an area of freedon,securityand justice without internal frontiers.
- an internal market where competition is free and undistorted;
- sustainable development, based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment;
- the promotion of scientific and technological advance;
- the combating of social exclusion and discrimination, and the promotion of social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child;
- the promotion of economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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