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Before the accession to the EU of the Eastern States, Spain withdrew about the same amout of funds as we paid in. Hence the comments about us paying for their new motorways when we had to get the M6 extension built privately and pay a toll.
Spain's position is now fiscally neutral, but if we leave they will have to pay for development in Eastern Europe (instead of us).
It is just common sense that they want us to stay and pay.
Just as it is common sense that we should leave and use the money to try an pay down our massive rising deficit.
If we leave I expect the French will keep thier nose in the air until they realise the the EU can no longer afford the CAP.
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Out of interest how do the German steelmakers get around this Tteedd?
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It seems that the stock exchange is about to be taken over by the Frankfurt Borse. The government is allowing it to happen because with the coming referendum they do not wish to be seen as anti EU. Putting the EU before the national interest.
It also seems that the Chinese are free to put a 46% duty on some of our steel but the government is unable, due to EU rules, to support Port Talbot and retaliate against the Chinese.
The government is complying with EU green directives. The result of this is the fuel used by Port Talbot costs twice as much as that used by US and German steelmakers and four times that used by the chinese.
It stinks. What an phEU shambles.
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Oh dear. It looks like the Brexit crowd have gotten caught with their panties down. Shame on you for making up names to go into the list of business leaders supporting Brexit.
Which Brexit crowd? As pointed out there are several that can't get thier act together.
Now the fact is that a couple of people (who are for leaving) were put on the list, but they had not given thier permission.
This compares rather favourably with the previous list where outers were named as supporting the EU.
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Sadly for the supporters of the 'IN' campaign, the Spanish and French won't be voting Micky. 
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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In a poll this week conducted by Le Monde a French newspaper around Europe they found 76% of the Spanish people they spoke to want the UK to remain in the EU.
Only 55% of French people said the same.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Oh dear. It looks like the Brexit crowd have gotten caught with their panties down. Shame on you for making up names to go into the list of business leaders supporting Brexit. Hardly a surprise though as they have made up soooooo much other stuff.
This message was last edited by perrypower1 on 27/03/2016.
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Oh don't admit defeat that easy Micky.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Did the EU wire you guys up and force feed all this to you, what comes next compulsary Esperanto and saluting to the Anthem of Europe, well it has to be by a German doesn't it? A lot of the UK expats residing in Spain have no love for the UK, however they (if applicable) will vote to suit themselves, as will millions of eurosceptics residing in the UK, I believe they are known as the 'thickos' to some of the forum 'IN's', kay sera sera.
I will regard that reply as a loss of the argument.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Useful website?
www.fullfact.org
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'75% of the lamb in the supermarket comes from New Zealand'
If you are going to quote something you really have to understand what you are reading and get your facts straight.
73% of lamb imports to the UK come from NZ. This does not mean that 75 (or even 73)% of our lamb comes from NZ.
We now import very little.
Lamb production has doubled in the UK since we joined the EU (due I agree to the CAP) and NZ farmers have been squeezed out of the market. We could be self sufficient except that we are a net exporter.
Before we joined the EEC/EU we took over 80% of NZ lamb production, we now take less than 20%.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 26/03/2016.
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Did the EU wire you guys up and force feed all this to you, what comes next compulsary Esperanto and saluting to the Anthem of Europe, well it has to be by a German doesn't it? A lot of the UK expats residing in Spain have no love for the UK, however they (if applicable) will vote to suit themselves, as will millions of eurosceptics residing in the UK, I believe they are known as the 'thickos' to some of the forum 'IN's', kay sera sera.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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You can't have it both ways Heph.
Brexit supporters complain of the costs of membership of the EU and then moan about the cash in the form of grants and subsidy that return to the UK.
Think about some of the infrastructure projects build with EU grants, support for the arts et al. All would not exist without EU membership. The UK government is hopelessly in debt. If it leaves the prospects for the future will be glum indeed.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Other than for the 'hobby' farmers I haven't noticed any new entrants into farming since we were conned into the EU, but what do I know? I only live where I post about. EU subsidies only make for poor farming practice, don't worry about profit, the EU will provide. A couple of architects bought up a local farm, demolished the old farm house and built a state of the art eco house, they have the optimum amount of stock in order to claim the maximum amount of EU grants without providing any service to the local community, I'm sure that you will approve.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Yes Heph and the au contraire is they would either have gone bust many years ago or not even started farming if the UK had remained outside the EU.
The EU is blamed by some for all the ills of the global economy. It's unfair and untrue.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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There are plenty of farmers (many hobby farmers) in my neck of the woods who's farms survive by virtue of a plethora of EU grants, it is a mathematical impossibility to make a living from say, a dairy heard of 20 cows. We are paying circa 80 pence for a litre of milk, some bottled waters cost more than that, the UK populace should pay the full cost of their milk, and please don't quote the supermarket's 'organic 'options, these are just a money making con.
I see many once very productive areas of grassland laying fallow, the only grazing stock to be seen are sheep and there are more camp/caravan sites than you can waive a stick at. A local farmer where my son used to help with the lambing is selling the farm house, farm yard, out buildings and some of the land for 'executive residential development', he should get circa £2million for it, and there endeth a farming tradition, VIVA the EU.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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British farmers almost all support the UK remaining in the EU. Why?
Without access to free trade markets and subsidies from the CAP their costs will rise by substantial margins. That means consumer shop prices will rocket. Imported products from the EU will require tariffs to protect UK farmers and create a level playing field.
The consequences for UK people will be very difficult. If the UK joins EFTA then all the negative reasons for leaving the EU given to the public by the exiteers will remain.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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@tteedd
even by some in farming who had thier livelihoods damaged when we joined the EEC.
Really? How come 73% of lamb products imported into UK comes from New Zealand? How come virtually all the apples in our local supermarket in UK come from New Zealand?
Or the other way round, that New Zealand bans beef products from UK which may have had some effect on British producers? I know European countries banned it as well but the EU made them take it again. Without the EU then British beef and lamb exports would still be banned.Especially as France, for example, backed down after the EU threatened them with €100 million fine.
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I see I come in for a little criticism.
I have compared the comments with my original post and see that in most of it the criticism does not hold water when read in conjunction with the dialog so see no reason to defend myself.
However I really enjoyed my time in NZ and am amazed at the affection that the 'old country' is still held in even by some in farming who had thier livelihoods damaged when we joined the EEC.
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The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 made it a sovereign state, it became a member of the United Nations in 1955 and joined the EEC in 1973, geographically it is part of The British Isles but is totally independent of the UK.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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