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It doesn't matter what agreements are made, if the vote is to stay in after a couple of years the EU will change any agreements to suit themselves.
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Can anyone answer the technical question, if Britain remains in the European Union following the referendum, at what point will this "special status agreement for the UK" between the 28 member states be ratified in law, or is this in effect a "draft agreement" that can be still be legally challenged by any one of the member states after the referendum?
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Hi Hephaestus
That's the way of this PC world.
If it is PC it has to be right and it is therefore OK to invent all sorts of nonsense to support your case.
All we can do is repeat the facts and the lessons of history and hope a little will sink in.
Tteedd
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tteedd,
You do realise that by pinning your banner to the 'OUT'S' mast, that the forum's self appointed inteligencia will declare you to be a 'thicko', unfit to vote and lacking in any knowledge on the subject. 
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Hear, hear.
At last someone talking sense on this subject...
This message was last edited by Jarvi on 19/02/2016.
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Brexit
Brits came to Spain when neither country was in the EU (or EEC), they still came when the UK joined, they still came when Spain joined. Why should it be any different if the UK leaves?
I am old enough to remember well joining the EEC, and Harold Wilson's rigged referendum in 1975.
I was young foolish and easily impressed by the promises when we joined. Who would not want a market for British manufactured goods and cheap food? Protection of British law? and no threat to soverenty? No one mentioned the cost or the lack of democracy. Or even the destruction of our fishing industry. I was for it when we joined and still in favour at the referendum. Harold re-negotiated and we stayed in. Of course we did, even though Harold had acheived nothing just as Dave is achieving nothing now, The BBC was in favour of in, the Tories were infavour of in and used our money to campaign, Labour campaigned for in and the EEC spent our money campaigning for in.
The penny soon dropped when british industry was decimated and food prices went through the roof. Our positive ballance of payments with the EEC went (and have stayed) negative. Unlike many I liked Mrs Thatcher, but she got in on the failure of British industry and the economy on the first nine years of membership leading to the winter of discontent. Thankfully she never wanted to join the euro but did have a disasterous flirtation with the exchange rate mechanism.
It costs us in payments to stay in.
It costs us in trading terms to stay in.
We loose our sovereignty and democratic accountability by staying in.
The current round of scaremongering has no basis in fact and we are capable of remaining a world leader if we are out. We are a permanent member of the Security Council, the 4th richest economy in the world and will be diluted as one of 28 if we stay in. How anyone can say we would have more influence in world affairs in than out is beyond understanding.
Dave is asking for little, will get even less than Harold did.
Do not be conned again.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 19/02/2016.
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In the modern global world of trade Britain acting alone is a unrealistic,impractical concept. If the UK leaves they will have to out of necessity join another trade organisation such as the EEA or similar. As a result the same legal and political restrictions will then apply. So in a sense this entire debate on Brexit is bogus.
Also there is a wider more esoteric reason why the EU is in my view is essential to us all. Politically the world is a dangerous place and mutual solidarity and fraternity between nations in order to prevent war and conflict is a sine qua non.
It also helps a great deal when nations act naturally as one entity against any threat the world throws our way..
I have a belief that the world and particularly Europe is a global village and people left to their own devices generally get on well with each other. We are all the same essentially. What divides us most is economic difference, language and opportunity.
The EU represents the best route to equal those differences and make us whole. A separate Britain is a route to political isolation, suspicion and prejudice. A journey back to the past.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Jeremy Corbyn has banned Labour MP's from campaigning as they wish, when as expected they ignore him, it could lead to a vote of no confidence. David Cameron is on his way out, so the views of his collegues who wish to replace him are more important than his, however neither George Osborne or Boris Johnson have declared their intentions, this leaves Theresa May to throw her hat into the leadership race and officially declare her allegence to the 'out' campaign.
The boredom in the UK with everything Brexit appears to be gaining yawning momentum, whether this favours the 'in's' or 'out's' is anyones guess.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Seems everyone's bored already with Brexit?
I see Bosnia is applying for EU membership: http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bosnia-eu-mogherini-idUKKCN0VO0PZ
Again, Simon Reeves' excellent BBC doc on Greece last night highlighted important EU issues that I found very interesting. Should Greece ever have been awarded membership? Probably not. Who's to blame for their debt crisis - the Greeks for over-borrowing (with clearly no intention of ever repaying) or those who lent them money knowing they could never afford to repay the loans anyway? (Depends on your point of view, but same question applies on an individual level to banks and sub-prime borrowers) Clearly, German big business and no doubt poiliticians gained by being able to sell lots of stuff to Greece (by lending them the dosh to do so first), and Greek big biz and politicians benefited by awarding themselves juicy public works contracts such as trains that cost more than taxis (airports with no flights ring a bell?) But what lessons have been learned? The Germans hate the Greeks because they're not paying back their debts, the Greeks hate the Germans because they feel they were tricked into borrowing more than they should...and yet everyone in Brussels thinks it would be great to expand (there's even an "Enlargement Commissioner " - who knew?) and include countries like Bosnia.
I predict that Bosnia will join, along with the other former Balkan states, Albania et al, loads of money will be thrown their way to "modernise", on the pretence that the countries stumping up the funds will benefit by having new wealthy friends to trade with, and then they won't pay back the loans (because it's not in their nature and they never intended to), and everyone will get angry with everyone else bla bla bla....(ever closer integration was supposed to produce the exact opposite effect)
I suspect that if Cameron's referendum was instead of on the UK leaving the EU, rather on whether the Mediterranean / Baltic countries should be ejected from it, he could spend more of his time relaxing at Checkers and popping down to my mate's pub, because no amount of campaigning would likely convince the public that it's a good idea to forge ever closer economic relations with cultures so at odds with ours (by which I mean northern, Germanic / Scandinavian cultures)
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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Sorry to confuse, this is Europol Bobaol, not Interpol, and Europol is EU's joint policing agency tasked with enhancing Europe's response to major cross border security and criminal threats, according to the broadcast.
This message was last edited by ads on 10/02/2016.
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Interpol was formed in 1923 and includes countries like USA, El Salvador, Malawi and hundreds of others rather a long way from EU territory.
How would a Brexit affect any of that? Not getting confused with the European Arrest Warrant, is he?
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Here's a link to BBC World services radio program called Hardtalk, transmitted Wed 10/02/16 which was an interview with Rob Wainwright Director of Interpol, relating to major cross border security and criminal threats.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03hjvwq
It's available to listen to on iplayer radio for another 29 days.
Interesting to hear of the limited resources at their disposal but reference was made at the end of the broadcast to the implications from Brixit, with Rob Wainwright suggesting that Britain's job would be harder if we were to exit. Question then remains, do the out campaign accept this scenario and what plans and at what cost do they have to counter this concern.....
This message was last edited by ads on 10/02/2016.
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Thanks for the link Roberto.
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Im voting to stay in Bloody new passport costs 72.50 Im not paying that again Cams got my vote
Also if Trump gets in which is looking likely that would be bad for the UK he hates us
Mind you would be great on Campo we could give the Germans a bashing (verbal) as we would not have to say we are all together now
mmm Cant make me mind up now In or Out
On the other hand it will take around 7 yrs to complete I read so whats the point
Love Hugh xx
_______________________
Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Apparently it was reported in the Daily Mail a day or so ago (Nope didn't read it) that Cameron's party are up in arms with him due to the lies he been telling about what will happen should the UK leave, seems he said that France wont secure its border with the UK so they will allow everyone to cross the water and come in to the UK, and build a tent city in Dover.
Who ever it is in charge over this in France said, rubbish no such thing will ever happen.
So to throw yet another spanner in the works, do we believe the French....Or...Cameron?
And as if Cameron hasn't got enough to think about now his Mum and Aunt are having a pop at some of the cutbacks.
Seems this was said by some leader? Britain has been "leading" the EU and the 28-nation bloc would be "weaker" if it left, he told BBC Two's Newsnight....Don't think for one moment that our £18,250,000,000 contribution...Or the lack of it if we leave... has anything to do with it.
This message was last edited by baz1946 on 10/02/2016.
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_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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I was ambivalent to the whole proceedings until one poster on this forum made my mind up for me, my thanks go to this aficionado on all matters involving the EU. .
This message was last edited by Hephaestus on 09/02/2016.
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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When we leave the EU, Spain will not impose extra restrictions because it could not afford the loss in revenue from taxes, tourism etc?, Spain has been enticing non EU people eg Russians and Chinese ti their shores. So they will not impose extra restrictions on their biggest source of external income.
Britain will prosper without the EU clap trap that only Britain implements. Spain, France and Germany implement EU legislation only when they are ready and know it will not affect them. We should also be free of the restructions of the dreaded secret TTIP deals which will kill the EU. Thing how Britain will grow, it's income will soar abd our pensions will increase.
Out will be th best thing for our futures. Should have happened 5 years ago.
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Nope! Three times I've read that last post, baz, and still can't make head nor tail of it. if you're asking if Brits living in Spain are worried about how a Brexit would affect them then of course they are.
And if I've "deserted" UK, can I please have the tax money you keep taking off me to the tune of a few thousand quid a year?
Well, for someone who has read it three times and still cant make head nor tail of it you still managed to answer it.
And as for tax, I don't take it, be pleased to know the immigrants coming in here need it.
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I think those who are resident in Spain are concerned (among other things) that a Brexit may affect their right to free healthcare in Spain.
On that note, although not strictly relevant to Brexit, Bob, the Telegraph articles you referred to, and the "change of policy" your old practice mentioned actually had nothing to do with expats returning to live in the UK, rather to expats visiting the UK. I believe the 6 month residency rule to be a myth, but won't go into that here.
The statement "previous residents of the UK are now allowed full access to the NHS and not just for emergency treatment. They do not require an EHIC for this" refers to previous residents who are now expats, & only to British pensioners. Working age expats living in other EEA countries will be required to produce an EHIC from their country of residence, or face charges. In reality, this latter part was always the case, they're just being stricter now (that's the new policy I think!)
From one of the Telegraph articles: "Former UK residents who return there to settle will be eligible for free NHS care immediately, according to a department of health spokesman. (this I believe was always the case)
“This clamping down is an example of how the UK’s austerity measures are affecting expats. Times are changing and if you’re not a UK pensioner, you can no longer just nip back to the UK for free health care when it suits you"
And this from thelocal.es: "former UK residents were automatically entitled to use the NHS for free if they fell ill during a visit. In practice, many expats use the NHS for planned treatment too. But now this right is being removed."
There's plenty more info about this, from the press, including Telegraph (which on this ocassion at least appears to have published the correct information!) as well as more official sources. For the sake of avoiding a thread thrift, I will PM you, Bob. If anyone else is interested, feel free to PM me.
This message was last edited by Roberto on 09/02/2016.
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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