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14 Feb 2022 5:58 PM by baldy Star rating. 1 posts Send private message

just a shot in the darlk does anybody know if almanzora country club has been built ?





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14 Feb 2022 6:59 PM by acer Star rating. 1493 posts Send private message

Surely, not - it all went belly up 15 years ago.



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15 Feb 2022 10:14 AM by windtalker Star rating. 1884 posts Send private message

Have a look on YouTube the Expat in Mazarron has put up  a video of the place you are enquiring about (shocking)..





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15 Feb 2022 10:14 AM by windtalker Star rating. 1884 posts Send private message

Have a look on YouTube the Expat in Mazarron has put up  a video of the place you are enquiring about (shocking)..





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16 Feb 2022 11:18 AM by baz1946 Star rating. 2304 posts Send private message

Banco Popular told to repay Almanzora Country Club victims 115 million euros Posted on July 2, 2014 by David — 2 Comments ↓ Banco Popular must repay victims of the Almanzora Country Club scam 115 million euros, according to La Voz. Totana Court Nº 4 has decided that although Banco Popular never issued individual purchase guarantees, since it accepted the deposits as guarantee to issue a promoter loan to the builders, the bank is liable under law for the lost deposits. Almanzora Country Club after being stopped Over a thousand mainly British expats were ripped off in the ACC urbanisation by buying offplan. Deposits were handed over ranging from a few thousand euros to well over a hundred thousand. Banco Popular must repay this money plus interest. Huma Meditteraneo went bust after the environmental police raided the complex and stopped work in 2005. The massive complex was being built without any permissions or licenses, other than a simple obra permit from Cuevas townhall. Boss Antonio Subiela was later jailed for one year (but never entered prison, I imagine) and fined (but probably never paid a penny). I expect Banco Popular will now appeal this ruling and drag it on for a further 5 or 10 years. ......Bit more then a shot in the dark me thinks.



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16 Feb 2022 1:20 PM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

The massive complex was being built without any permissions or licenses, other than a simple obra permit from Cuevas townhall."

And now we have a scenario where the protective BG law Ley57/68 has been overturned by another Law which states that building licences must be in place prior to issuance of contract ( and presumably all contract clauses in line with existing protective BG case law) .....and yet some conveyancers and developers are STILL not complying with this, thus placing offplan purchasers at major risk. 

Hence the loud call for the Bar Associations to ensure that their members are fully complying with the law via far greater transparency with regard to mediation procedures with adequate disincentives in place against those who are not complying, to safeguard the legal profession as a whole.

Without such transparent reassurances and all good legal professionals actively calling for greater regulatory control over their professional standards, how can any purchaser who has little knowledge of the detailed complexities relating to protective law in Spain possibly know that they are being placed at risk in this way by the very people in whom they are placing their trust?
 

Until such time as these measures are addressed by those regulatory bodies, the Bar Associations, then sadly the message is not only buyer beware of developer and Bank malpractice but also beware of conveyancer malpractice. 

Surely it's now in everyone's interests in Spain to address these uncomfortable realities and strive for better effective and transparent regulatory structures, to act as reassurance that those responsible ARE being made adequately accountable for their non compliance?

 


This message was last edited by ads on 2/16/2022.


This message was last edited by ads on 2/16/2022.



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16 Feb 2022 7:03 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 989 posts Send private message

Quite a few of the dissappointed customers at Almanzora Country Club accepted properties on Mazarron Country club.

Nice development but most of the facilities advertised were not built including the golf course.

Mind you there were a few people there in trouble also because some of the places were built where there was only permission for holliday occupation and found themselves unable to sell.





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16 Feb 2022 8:54 PM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

 Failures of the conveyancers and their lack of due diligence to check and forewarn their clients perhaps?

Lack of independence and hidden self interests?

Failure to identify evidence of the marketing literature forming part of purchasers legal protective rights and requirement to specify all necessary detail in the purchase contract from the outset? 

All aspects associated with the requirement ( and knowledge of supportive case law)  to effectively ensure a watertight purchase contract so as to safeguard purchasers rights.

 





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17 Feb 2022 9:37 AM by baz1946 Star rating. 2304 posts Send private message

This is no more then the dopes that send money of to where ever who knows because they were told they won an overseas lottery, and had to pay exe's to collect the winnings, than actually admit they didn't know why they had won because they never entered it, and many as later found out have been what you might call experienced worldly people, I am afraid where money and humans are concerned it's a problem brewing in the making for the many.



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17 Feb 2022 10:43 AM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

Not at all Baz. Sadly this goes far wider than you appreciate I'm afraid. This goes to the heart of adherence to the rule of law and ensuring effective compliance with law intended to protect.

This is drawing attention to the realities of a conveyancing system in Spain that actually exists where some conveyancers and developers and Banks are being allowed to manipulate and follow practices that essentially are against the rule of law, I.e. they are NOT complying with law in place to protect, and the SYSTEM is failing to ensure that EFFECTIVE and ENFORCED regulatory controls and reporting and montitoring mechanisms are in place to act as essential safeguards to protect against NON COMPLIANCE, as required by EU and Spanish codes of conduct.

Spanish lawyers must abide by the ethical and deontological duties set by the following codes of conduct:

  • The Code of Conduct for European Lawyers (Código Deontológico de los Abogados de la Unión Europea), approved by the Council of Bars and Law Societies of the European Union on 28 November 1998.

 

With regard to Banks and consumer protection

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32014L0049

Why place Banks ( and countries’ economic well-being) at risk when there should be effective and enforceable mechanisms in place to prevent such malpractice in all its many forms from such risks AT SOURCE via an effective regulated conveyancing and legal system?

It makes no sense to leave both consumers ( purchasers) and economies at risk in this way without looking to the higher level perspective to actively minimise risk FROM THE OUTSET.  

There is sadly much hypocrisy when suggesting it is the consumers at fault here when the system itself “allows” such risks to continue unnecessarily without thorough review of all compliance structures intended to protect at both lower and higher levels of economic activity.

And this requires adherence and compliance with laws and rules intended to protect from the outset.

 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 2/17/2022.



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17 Feb 2022 4:38 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1225 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

ads

‘’This goes to the heart of adherence to the rule of law and ensuring effective compliance with law intended to protect.’’

Why is the rule of law not enforced?



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18 Feb 2022 12:58 AM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

All we can decipher from lack of enforcement during this last decade and beyond is that too few in power sadly appeared to have truly recognised the scale of economic impact that would ensue from non compliance on this scale and nature. Nor did they recognise the impact on society  in terms of undermining cohesion and trust.

 

The reality of what has occurred in terms of economic impact and distrust can no longer be denied, but there are changes occurring, not least by the creation of new protective case law and increased judicial enforcement ( still much to do however)! 

But the case being made is that it makes little sense to focus on enforcement of law AFTER the event without equally looking to effective ways to minimise instances of malpractice and non compliance FROM THE OUTSET.  Which as already identified relates to Bar Associations actions to safeguard standards with effective disincentives in place to counter continuing non compliance by their members and thereby regain trust.

 

Having said all of that it's important to consider that in our day to day lives, we often bemoan the fact that we must follow rules. We frequently find society’s laws to be too restrictive and rigid, not being flexible enough to take our individual needs and circumstances into account.

In understanding the idea of the Rule of Law, however, we see that the rules, while frequently inconvenient, in fact save us from the intolerable inconvenience that a social order without objective rules would inevitably provide. This is not to say that all of our current laws or rules are perfect, but the existence of these objective rules ultimately protects our freedom. While many people in the world still struggle against the oppression of a tyrannical ruler, we are free from oppression at least in part because we are ruled by law.

 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 2/18/2022.



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19 Feb 2022 2:39 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1225 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Perhaps it should be up to Spanish citizens to choose the rules of law and the enforcement of those rules. Expatriate residents are only here as guests and if they are dissatisfied they have a choice to either stay or leave.



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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19 Feb 2022 3:12 PM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

Sorry but that is a blinkered and somewhat alienating and divisive observation Kavanagh.

Many Spanish citizens have been equally affected by Banks non compliance with regard to mortgage malpractices ( small print) and that depends upon adherence and due diligence from the outset....so you can't pick and choose which parts of the the law you can or can't ensure compliance applies! Plus this also only accentuated massive delays on the court and judicial system which again forms part of the rule of law in terms of timely justice.

As for " only guests" tell that to those residents who have been in Spain for many years and contributing to the local economy and still suffer such aspects as deterioration of local standards, buildings lying empty or in need of demolition, or witnessing their fellow man suffer the indignity of illegal builds, lack of licences, regional authorities pitted against local authorities and the like. The chaos from non compliance is sadly widespread and unnecessarily impacting Spain's economy.

Time for non compliance to be tackled for everyone's sake and has the potential ironically to enhance the Spanish economy if only trust was restored. 





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19 Feb 2022 3:38 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1225 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Spain is a democratic sovereign country and ruled by the ballot box. Expatriate residents are only here as guests no matter how long they have been in Spain. crying



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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19 Feb 2022 6:09 PM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

Absolutely a sovereign country but a member state expected to respect the rule of law according to the EU!

Each to their own but I find it sad to witness divisive rhetoric that doesn't seek out positive ways forward that have the potential to be mutually beneficial.





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19 Feb 2022 7:46 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1225 posts Send private message

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Most foreigners/immigrants learn to respect the culture of the country that kindly allows them to be temporary guests, ** EDITED - Against forum rules - INCITING**

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 2/19/2022 8:51:00 PM.

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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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20 Feb 2022 4:06 PM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

Absolutely respect the culture, but respect is earned, and turning blind eyes to obvious ongoing injustices, non compliance with law and compromising malpractices by banks, developers and non independent conveyancers on such a large scale as to impact the wider economy and society,   sadly does little to enhance respect and requires willingness to seek out solutions.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 2/20/2022.



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20 Feb 2022 5:18 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1225 posts Send private message

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The host country expects courtesy and respect from foreign immigrant guests to their culture. It is not the host country’s duty to change its culture to the satisfaction of temporary foreign guests. It is the citizens of a democratic country to decide their own culture through the ballot box.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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20 Feb 2022 6:36 PM by ads Star rating. 4092 posts Send private message

Interesting article dated November 2020 re Spain and democracy and the rule of law see below, ,but from another perspective I wasn't aware that it was "courteous" to disrespect the rule of law and turn your back on fair justice for your fellow man Kavanagh! Each to their own I suppose....

https://epthinktank.eu/2020/11/04/citizensenquiries-on-the-rule-of-law-in-spain/

The President of the European Parliament has recently received a large number of messages on the current situation of the rule of law in Spain. Citizens first began to write to the President on this subject in October 2020 calling on the Parliament to intervene in favour of the rule of law in Spain, which the Spanish government is allegedly not respecting. With regard to the rule of law in the European Union, the European Parliament has called for an EU mechanism to protect and strengthen democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights. In October 2020, the European Parliament warned that the Union is facing an unprecedented and escalating crisis of its founding values.

Please find below the main points of the reply sent to citizens who took the time to write to the President of the European Parliament on this matter (in English and in Spanish).

 

Main points made in the reply in English

With regard to the rule of law, we would like to inform you that on 7 October 2020, the European Parliament adopted, by 521 votes in favour, 152 against and 21 abstentions, a resolution proposing the creation of an EU mechanism to protect and strengthen democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights.

The European Parliament ’emphasises the urgent need for the Union to develop a robust, comprehensive and positive agenda for effectively protecting and reinforcing democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights for all its citizens; insists that the Union must remain a champion of freedom and justice in Europe and the world; warns that the Union is facing an unprecedented and escalating crisis of its founding values, which threatens its long-term survival as a democratic peace project’.

The European Commission published the 2020 Rule of Law Report on 30 September 2020. The report includes a chapter on Spain.

Regarding the allocation of EU funds, the European Parliament ‘reiterates its call to ensure that systematic violations of the values referred to in Article 2 TEU are incompatible with Union funding’, thereby shielding the Union budget when a Member State does not systematically respect the rule of law.

Finally, we take this opportunity to inform you that the European Commission is the institution responsible for ensuring the application of EU law in the Member States, managing European policies and allocating EU funds.

-------------

 

Main points made in the reply in Spanish

Con respecto al Estado de Derecho, le informamos de que el Parlamento Europeo ha aprobado el 7 de octubre de 2020, por 521 votos a favor, 152 en contra y 21 abstenciones, una resolución en la que plantea la creación de un mecanismo de la Unión que permita proteger y reforzar la democracia, el Estado de derecho y los derechos fundamentales.

El Parlamento europeo “hace hincapié en la necesidad urgente de que la Unión desarrolle una agenda sólida y positiva para proteger y reforzar la democracia, el Estado de Derecho y los derechos fundamentales de todos sus ciudadanos; insiste en que la Unión debe seguir siendo una defensora de la libertad y la justicia en Europa y en el mundo; advierte que la Unión se enfrenta a una crisis sin precedentes y creciente de sus valores fundacionales que amenaza su supervivencia a largo plazo como proyecto de paz democrático”.

La Comisión Europea ha publicado el 30 de septiembre de 2020 el Informe sobre el Estado de Derecho 2020. El informe incluye un capítulo sobre España.

Con respecto a la asignación de fundos, el Parlamento Europeo “reitera su petición de que se garantice la incompatibilidad de las violaciones sistemáticas de los valores a que se refiere el artículo 2 del TUE con la financiación de la Unión” blindando así el presupuesto de la Unión cuando un Estado miembro no respeta el Estado de derecho de forma sistemática.

Por último, permítanos hacerle saber que la Comisión Europea es la institución encargada de garantizar la aplicación del Derecho de la Unión Europea en los países de la UE, gestionar las políticas europeas y asignar los fondos de la Unión Europea.





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