Eu 90 day rule

Its a long time since I posted anything on here but its good to keep in touch with what is going on in Spain through EOS for which I thank you.

My wife and I retired to Spain in 2008 and during the 5 years we lived there we took out contracts on 3 different premises which we rented on an initial 11 month long term contract. We had to return to UK for family reasons but are considering going back to Spain next year.

I am given to understand that because of the new Brexit lawas we shall not be able to rent that long again so I was wandering if there is any Rental Agencies or landlords that will specialise in 3 month (90) rentals ?

This could be a lucrative new market for someone unless the laws change again.

Good point... it's 3 months for me too!

David

"I cannot think of any reason why the Shengen area would decide to change it's own rules as a result of the UK leaving the EU."

But you could probably think of a few why Spain (or other southern countries) might wish to do so when people start going home or selling a lot of property.

We will probably have to wait to see how things pan out when the Covid restrictions are lifted.

Any EU members/ countries can depict the amount of time that none EU citizens can spend in their country ...the likes of Spain are free to do this but as of yet haven't done so ... EU countries like Portugal have already stated that if you retire in Portugal you will not pay any taxes on you pension and so forth for 10 year's ... Portugal is also in the process of changing the 90 / 180 day rules to attract the British ... the Spanish government should take note ...if they don't I can foresee big problems in the new build and resale housing market especially on the Costa's...I have owned a villa in Spain for 16 years I am not a Spanish resident.. I personally would not consider buying in Spain again under the present 90 / 180 rules .

This is interesting! 

"EU  countries can depict the amount of time..." I'm not sure what you mean by "depict" - do you mean "decide"? If this is true, I am guessing that what countries can actually do is offer an extension to the 90 days (for a fee, and with some sort of documentary application stating a valid reason for the request) rather than carte blanche "change the rules".

 After all, to join the Schengen area, countries must fulfil a list of pre-conditions, including applying the common set of Schengen rules (https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen_en)

And:

A non-EU national who stays in the Schengen area beyond 90 days (without a residence permit or long-stay visa) is illegally present, which can result in a re-entry ban to the Schengen area. (https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/visa_waiver_faqs_en.pdf)

Do you have any links to articles referencing the claim that Portugal is "in the process of changing the 90 / 180 day rules to attract the British"? I can imagine that if this is indeed true, other "third" countries (e.g. Russia, China) will demand similar treatment. Worms & cans come to mind! 

Portugal call it a D7 visa at the moment you only need  proof of income of €7,200 per year to apply for this visa ..if your country of origin is not a EU member.

Interesting, thanks.

I hadn't heard of the D7 before. Seems like possibly a good option for Brits who still dream of retiring to the sun - albeit a lot more complicated than it would have been pre-Brexit. Also, having read a bit about it now, I can see a few obvious issues; for example, minimum stay requirements and so forth, which may mean it's not a viable option for those who just want to stay a bit more than 90 in 180 (i.e. holiday home owners). 

So yes, I guess Spain could introduce a similar scheme. Except...wouldn't they have already done so if they wanted to attract more retirees? (It seems Portugal have been offering this for several years already) Are British pensioners that vital to the Spanish economy? Does Spain need loads of bargain loving Brits living on campsites, or would they rather attract Russian oligarchs living on their yachts? (I remember when the Balearics introduced a "tourist tax" to try to put off cheap mass tourism in favour of wealthier visitors)

It will be interesting to see how things develop when the world gets back to some sort of normality. Personally though, I wouldn't hold my breath - I'm not convinced that Spain (or anyone else for that matter) view Brits as quite so exceptional as many seem to view themselves ;-)

I doubt Spain will ever truly implement any time restrictions on UK non residents; it will remain the same as pre BREXIT, a blind eye to everything. Money talks and the Spanish cannot eat the rule book.

Spain receives the largest proportion of UK outbound tourism spend, standing at £7.9 billion in 2016, equivalent to 18% of the world total and 31% of UK tourists' entire spend in the EU27 countries.

And the vast majority of the tourists accounting for those figures will be visiting for one or two weeks, for whom very little will have changed as a result of Brexit. 

As for longer stays, only time will tell I guess. The problem facing anyone who wants to spend more than 90 in 180 now, is deciding if it's worth risking overstaying. Personally, I wouldn't.

Prior to BREXIT UK nationals could only stay in Spain for 3 months (90 days) after that they had to (suppose to) register with the authorities and obtain a residence certificate, which required them to prove they could support themselves financially and have healthcare insurance where needed..

So what has changed regarding overstaying post BREXIT?

Kavanagh..you are completely right about the length of stay in Spain befor you are required to register as a resident it has remained the same as pre Brexit ..the only difference now post Brexit is that you need a income of approximately €27,000 per year as apposed to a income of approximately €7,000 per year pre Brexit everything else has remained the same.

And this, of course:

A non-EU national who stays in the Schengen area beyond 90 days (without a residence permit or long-stay visa) is illegally present, which can result in a re-entry ban to the Schengen area. (https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/visa_waiver_faqs_en.pdf)

Apart from that....yep, nothing's changed

So if nothing has changed, why the big fuss about the 90 day rule. OK there may be a bit of passport stamping, but that could be just a job creation scheme.  If the 90 day limit previously existed, how many British have been deported for breaking the rule sine the UK joined the EU in 1975 (45 years ago) bearing in mind the many thousands living in Spain permanently non resident. Does Spain really want to identify Brit overstayers and send them back to the UK with their pockets full of €s or are they playing lip service to Brussels, is it all a pantomime?

The only people I have come across that are moaning about Brexit and the 90 / 180 rules are the ducker & divers that have been working cash in hand and living below the radar...in Spain.

I fully agree windy, but why impose laws and rules that will financially impinge on all honest Spanish residents, expats and nationals, to try and deter a few  Brit scumbags.

Over the past 45 years if you went to the police station to report an overstayer (non resident living permntly in Spain and paying no taxes)  you would be told you were a time waster. Will anything actually change.

Probably because, up until now, the passport has simply been used as an identity card. Other EU countries travel around solely on their national ID card with no checks on entry or exit. Exactly the same for Brits when  the passport was used the same way.

Now, the arrivals and departures will be recorded, same as they are for all other countires not in the EU or EEA. The stamp in the passport will simply be a quick reference guide as it will be recorded elecronically.

Unless, of course, people think the Brits are special and won't be treated like other non EU countries.

Some of the UK press were talking about Brits being rounded up and thrown out after March 31st which was a load of old tripe. Thing is, when a non-res leaves Spain then that will now be recorded whereas it wasn't before. 

And the other thing that has changed regarding residency is that you have to apply in UK for a visa to come to Spain in the first place. That visa, whether a non lucrative visa, work visa, student visa or whatever, just allows you to travel to Spain to apply for whatever residency document you are after which are only issued in the Region you are moving to.

Of course, there will be no tourist visa for those coming on holiday for up to 90 days but your visit will be recorded which it wasn't before.

‘’But it has been recorded electronically for many years.’’ I agree. I find it difficult to believe a country like Spain in this day and age does not know who comes and goes without a stamp. As far as I know all airlines must submit a flight list with passenger details including passport numbers, how else can terrorism be controlled? Is passport stamping just a quill @ pen job creation scheme?

‘’Of course, there will be no tourist visa for those coming on holiday for up to 90 days but your visit will be recorded which it wasn't before.’’ Not true, Spain welcomes anyone who has a € to spend no matter how long it takes to spend that €, it has been like that for the last 45 years and will remain the same for at least the next 45 years. Brussels rule book is only ink on paper, the financial needs of Spain are reality, even if it is abused by a few Brit scumbags.

You can preach laws and rules all you like but if a country won’t implement them they are worthless.

I don't think the point of this thread is whether or not Spain will or won't enforce certain laws; rather, whether or not you or other non-resident British holiday home owners choose to risk breaking them.

Quite right Roberto, but where is the determent to follow rules that are not enforced.

Money will always be king; rules are just ink on paper.

What I can't understand is why the UK is allowing  a EU citizen spend 180 day's in one go in the UK..but the EU are refusing to allow UK citizen the same rights...why are the EU being so difficult .