Tax refund Mistake

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18 May 2019 20:26 by rysteig Star rating. 7 posts Send private message

I had a tax refund paid into my bank account in December 2016 My lawyer in Spain who was dealing with the sale of my appartment in Spain has emailed me saying I have to send back the payment as it was a mistake and the money should have gone to another party I no longer have the money 

 





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18 May 2019 21:31 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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Hello rysteig and welcome to EOS

Firstly no one can get blood out of a stone.

A bit more information required. Who paid who? How much is involved? Where are you resident now?



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18 May 2019 22:31 by rysteig Star rating. 7 posts Send private message

I have been told that the tax man can add interest from the time I recieved the payment My solicitor in Spain gave the tax man wrong information and the tax man transfered a payment of £2837 into my account .I received the payment and just thought it was to do with the sale of my holiday home in Spain. They want me to pay back  3450 Euros I live in Scotland





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18 May 2019 23:45 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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OK rysteig got that. Just a bit more info, do you have any assets in the UK, I am assuming you have non in Spain.



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19 May 2019 00:08 by rysteig Star rating. 7 posts Send private message

Yes I have accets in Scotland none in Spain





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19 May 2019 08:55 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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Hello rysteig

This is a case of what might happen and not what will definitely happen.

The money has been paid to you in error, whose fault that was is probably irrelevant.

£2,837 is significant but not major.

Your starting point is to either ignore it altogether at this stage or plead to the Spanish tax authorities this error is not your fault, the money has gone and you now live in poverty with no hope of ever being able to pay them the money. If you are lucky and it was their error they may write it off.

If you are not lucky ‘’currently and expected to continue’’ there is a joint arrangement where HMRC will peruse the debt on behalf of the Spanish tax authorities. This ultimately could result in HMRC issuing bankruptcy proceedings. Prior to that you will be given the opportunity to make an arrangement to pay the debt bit by bit and possibly have the interest frozen.

Other members on here may know more.



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19 May 2019 20:25 by fazarelli Star rating. 262 posts Send private message

Tell em you'll just wait for the courts in Spain to deal with it ...in 15 years time lol.

 

Actually, i'd completely ignore it until someone not from a third world country gets in touch.  I wouldn't be giving a penny to anyone in Spain unless i was 100% sure that it was a legitimate request.

 


This message was last edited by fazarelli on 19/05/2019.



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20 May 2019 07:59 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5061 posts Send private message

You say you have been notified by the lawyer who acted for you

I would have thought he/she was the first person to contact for advice.

The bottom line is that as you were paid and spent money which you were not entitled to, you wil have to pay it back.   As you have assets in U.K. the tax office I believe could take court action there against those assets.  If they do that probably you would be liable for costs too.  Maybe if you can borrow against your assets the best and cheapest course would be to do that and repay the money.  

If it can be shown you knew you had no right to the money you might have problems with the police.   Speak you your lawyer ADSP

 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 20/05/2019.

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20 May 2019 08:38 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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I very much doubt that Interpol or the Serious Crime Squad would be interested in a mistaken £2,837 tax refund payment.



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20 May 2019 09:05 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5061 posts Send private message

I didn’t say the police would prosecute but keeping money paid to you in error is a criminal offence and very easy to prove so even in cases involving smallish amounts it could be cost effective to prosecute and of course a simple and quick answer for the bank   They would just need to report the facts

That was why I suggested speaking to the lawyer   

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/blog/2013/feb/09/bank-error-your-favour-spending-it-theft

just to clarify  INTERPOL is only a liaison faciltity through which the police of member countries communicate.  They are not a police service so cannot take action against anyone anywhere   A common misconception 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 20/05/2019.

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20 May 2019 09:44 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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John why do you have to exaggerate the whole thing. Your link refers to a case involving £4 million.

This case is about a small tax refund made in error and has nothing to do with a bank. Both HMRC and Agencia Tributaria. Agencia Estatal de Administración Tributaria have their own procedures when dealing with these civil matters.

The Spanish tax authorities are famous for refusing to refund payments, how often have they been prosecuted?



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20 May 2019 11:13 by rysteig Star rating. 7 posts Send private message

I have contacted the solicitor in Spain who had informed me of this mistake. They hAve asked me to return the monet to their account so as they can refunderstand the tax office before its too late and the problem gets bigger ! At first I thought this was a scam ...but now I just don't know I have asked to see the correspondence they have from the tax office butthey say they were told of the mistake verbally. .I have found out that if a mistake is made by the tax office it's up to the individual to retun the money ..but how can you do that if you didn't know of the mistake ? and have spent the money ? 





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20 May 2019 11:30 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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All very suspicious. It would be interesting to know how much interest the Spanish police have in investigating this whole case. Perhaps John can advise.



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20 May 2019 12:51 by rysteig Star rating. 7 posts Send private message

I have been told by the solicitor in Spain that the tax people have not started the investigation. .but will do if I don't send back the money The solicitors office made the mistake by giving the tax office the wrong details They claim that the refund should have went to one of their other clients , that is why they want me to send the money to them ! I know this sounds like a scam or the solicitor trying to sort out his mistake 





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20 May 2019 12:53 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5061 posts Send private message

“.I have found out that if a mistake is made by the tax office it's up to the individual to retun the money ..but how can you do that if you didn't know of the mistake ? and have spent “

i would certainly demand a written notification from Hacienda 

At the risk of being criticised,  assuming you were paid money in error, that you did not know, is no excuse ‘ignorance is no defence’.   That you have used the money is your problem and no justification for not refunding it.   That was why I suggested maybe (if you do owe the money) you would be advised to raise a loan to do so.

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 20/05/2019.

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20 May 2019 13:05 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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Ignorance went down well in the Ken Dodd trial.

 


This message was last edited by Kavanagh on 20/05/2019.

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20 May 2019 14:10 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5061 posts Send private message

** EDITED - Against forum rules - inciting **

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 21/05/2019 11:55:00.

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TO AVOID THE POSSIBILITY OF ARGUMENTS IN THREADS, WHICH MAY CONFUSE THOSE WHO NEED ADVICE, IF YOU THINK I CAN HELP PM ME



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20 May 2019 16:09 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 518 posts Send private message

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** EDITED - Against forum rules - inciting**

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 21/05/2019 11:55:00.

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20 May 2019 17:28 by ads Star rating. 3603 posts Send private message

"I have asked to see the correspondence they have from the tax office butthey say they were told of the mistake verbally."

" The solicitors office made the mistake by giving the tax office the wrong details"

So the tax office never sent your solicitor the details in writing?

Surely no-one pays any amount owing without actual proof of Hacienda demand and that should come via your solicitor since it was they who made the mistake?

Variour questions arise from this....

Doesn't interest on the client's part only accrue from the moment that they were officially informed via proof of Hacienda demand in writing?

Why should the innocent client be made liable for interest when they never had knowledge of the error?

Is the solicitor trying to make the innocent party accountable for their mistake in terms of the interest due?

By paying directly to the Hacienda wouldn't that in effect be an admittance that the mistake was of the client's making and thereby make them liable for interest, instead of the solicitor being responsible for the interest due to their own mismanagement?

This sounds extraordinary!

 

 





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21 May 2019 14:11 by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK. 626 posts Send private message

Hi Rysteig

If I were you I would PM Maria de Castro (she is on this site and has sorted and won many cases, and offered free advice to people), she should be able to advise you better than any of the rest of us.





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