UK Driving License - Discontinuance of the Counterpart

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07 May 2015 19:27 by MikeandHelen Star rating. 158 posts Send private message

AS many of you will know, the 'counterpart' of the driving license is being discontinued.

Here's how the DVLA expect you to geta printout of your endorsements in order to hire a car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn2A8E2xo1I  

Fortunately this is not routinely asked for in Spain?????

MIke.





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07 May 2015 22:19 by baz1946 Star rating. 2181 posts Send private message

If you read the UK papers of late they would like you to believe this is the end of renting cars in Spain as we know it, unless you have the correct documentation from DVLA, even the TV has mentioned how bad it's going to get, seems that you have to, or should phone DVLA to get a set of numbers which allows the Spanish rental company to phone up and use these to check you're driving licence, also seems that this "Oh so important" number only lasts for about 72 hours.

No doubt another load of rubbish dreamed up by some over paid someone with not enough to do in Brussels.





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07 May 2015 23:17 by bobaol Star rating. 2257 posts Send private message

bobaol´s avatar

Why would someone employed by the DVLA in Swansea following a UK only rule about telephoning for a copy of a piece of paper which only applies to people with a UK driving licence have anything remotely to do with Brussels?

I have seen the EU blamed for everything from bendy bananas through smoking bans in pubs to not being able to deport foreign criminals but to lay the blame on them for a purely British piece of crass bureaucracy really takes the biscuit.

Unless you are privy to some unpublished piece of legislation that makes all other EU nationals comply with this uniquely British way of doing things then you really are talking rubbish.

I'll have you know we British are quite capable of thinking up our own stupid rules with no help from anyone in Brussels, thank you very much. And when we do, we make them more spectacularly stupid than any foreigner could possibly dream of.

 

 

 


This message was last edited by bobaol on 07/05/2015.



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08 May 2015 10:02 by baz1946 Star rating. 2181 posts Send private message

 

Why would someone employed by the DVLA in Swansea following a UK only rule about telephoning for a copy of a piece of paper which only applies to people with a UK driving licence have anything remotely to do with Brussels?

I have seen the EU blamed for everything from bendy bananas through smoking bans in pubs to not being able to deport foreign criminals but to lay the blame on them for a purely British piece of crass bureaucracy really takes the biscuit.

Unless you are privy to some unpublished piece of legislation that makes all other EU nationals comply with this uniquely British way of doing things then you really are talking rubbish.

I'll have you know we British are quite capable of thinking up our own stupid rules with no help from anyone in Brussels, thank you very much. And when we do, we make them more spectacularly stupid than any foreigner could possibly dream of.

 

Well, as I own and run a couple of UK business's, I think you might be surprised as to how much of our crass purely British bureaucracy which you seem to think is only controlled by the UK.....Isn't.

Yes, sure we can make up our own stupid rules with no help from Brussels but the sad fact is, and it seems like almost 100% of this stuff is only suggested to us via Brussels, we then go along with the "Suggestions" . I have lost track of the times in the past when we have phoned certain departments to clarify something only to be told..."Sorry that is an EU directive" I don't bother to phone up anymore now.

I get weekly pieces of junk, from DVLA, VOSA, etc etc on how to do this, how to do that, do this from such and such a date, it goes on, the only reason that the majority of the UK public don't get to hear about these things, is because they are "Privy" to certain controlled UK business's, and when we can we bend the rules a little,  because we are sensible people doing what Un-sensible Brussels would absolutely love us do.

I could give you a skip load of "Stupid" rules that you might think we "British" have thought up on our own, but haven't, fact is, agree or not, we are being controlled slowly and surely to integrate into what they want us to be. 

Thought you might have realised this due to the fact that when the EU / Brussels bring out some of the many "Wonderful" thoughts, it seems that the UK are the only one's who do it to the letter...Even though it's an EU wide, everyone...(You will do it)... legislation.





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08 May 2015 10:43 by scollins Star rating in London. 52 posts Send private message

Baz 1946 - this has more to do with rather a lot of people in Swansea making life easy for themselves, at the expense of motorists. Added to the abolition of tax discs it all amounts to financial penalties being imposed with the burden entirely placed on the motorist being able to successfully  navigate websites.



_______________________
Scollins



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08 May 2015 11:07 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Simple solution would be to have an electronic chip on your DL with all details from penalty points to medical data but the goody 2 shoes and civil liberties will not allow this type of thing will they yet the data is already stored on many computer systems!!!

National ID cards including DL's, health data, donor data, nearset of kin details and passports etc could be one easy card - easily updated online.

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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08 May 2015 12:45 by MikeandHelen Star rating. 158 posts Send private message

 

The scrapping of the paper counterpart and the tax disc, along with the closure of 39 local vehicle licensing offices goes back to the UK Government's 'Digital by Default' agenda of delivering services on line. 

This goes back to the last Labour government during 2007-2009 who came up withe the Government Digital strategy and was propped up by Francis Maude who stepped down yesterday. Classic quotes include" not doing everything on-line would be prohibitively expensive". (So let's pass the hassle and costs on to the consumer).

Mike MSc (IT Security).





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08 May 2015 13:33 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

I dont see any isseus with doing things on line and wish we could do more in Spain (it is getting easier)!

Many people  book flights, obtain visas, pay bills, banking, shopping, pay tax, book appointments, send greetings, emails, texts, etc etc

The digital age makes life a hell of a lot easier and although I sympathise with those who may not be internet savvy there is plenty of help (and often free) out there

It is so much easier than the way it was and yes it may even be more cost effective

The problem with the DL issue is as I mentioned previously if all data was on the DL photocard via a microchip (passports have them now so why not DL'sindecision) we would not have this problem and / or if the DVLA made their database available on line to all hire car companies. But we do have the dementors who hide behind data protection and civil liberty groups etcfrown



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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08 May 2015 14:19 by MikeandHelen Star rating. 158 posts Send private message

 

Tadd,

Unfortunately if you embed a chip it needs to be updated.

There is a couple of simple issues. Possesion of a driving license and/or counterpart does not mean it is current.

The other is the way it is being done away with has not been properly thought through, which is usual with the DVLA. It should be far easier for a check too be done than the system that has been put into place where the onus is on the license holder to prove their status. 

The 'on-line' system should be more accesible to hire companies and any organisation that allows people to drive is affected, as regular checks on driver status are necessary.

 

Mike 

 





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08 May 2015 14:39 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Mike

I agree but it is not impossible to update an electronically chipped DL on line, many cards such as monthly pay TV, mobile phones, top up credit cards, paypal, bank accounts etc et etc 

Also it would assit the pocie in checking DL's quicker than they do now



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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02 Jun 2015 17:31 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

I have just today got notification from the DVLA that the paper counterpart is no longer valid from 8 June, and on that date should be destroyed, but not before. It explains that if an Employer, Car hire company, Etc. needs information that was previously held on the counterpart, they should use an internet checking system they have for this check, or if you do not have a computer, there is a DVLA phone number for requesting a check. Using this they will apparently issue a reference code that will be valid for 72 hours so that anyone needing the information can use the code to access said information.  If the code expires you can demand another code again, also valid for 72 hours, and as it says , up to 5 codes a day can be issued. It does not say this is free, but also it does not mention a charge, so maybe it is a free service (?)  I hope this clarifies the apparent confusion and uncertainty regarding this thread.

 





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02 Jun 2015 19:34 by Marksfish Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 2559 posts Send private message

Marksfish´s avatar

I am renting a car at the end of this month. I asked the question to Solmar and have been told that so long as I have the photocard, that is all that is needed. I have never shown the paper part of the licence in the last 7 years, but have always carried it, just in case.





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03 Jun 2015 08:33 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

I do not know if the hire company you are going to use checks paper counterparts of licences, I would think that is up to the individual hire company and its company policy. If you have not got a letter about the changes regarding paper counterparts, send me a message and I will send you a copy of the letter that I have just got, and then you will have all the information, including their phone number to ring for licence disclosure purposes. Regards, Rob.





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03 Jun 2015 10:46 by andyintorre Star rating in Costa Blanca. 104 posts Send private message

How interesting that rental companies need to check driving record for uk DL holders, if this is the case why don't they check for holders of other EU DL's, who have never had a paper counterpart?





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03 Jun 2015 13:53 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

Just got this from my son in UK:-

 

This might be useful if you are planning to hire a car in Spain…..

From 8 June, new rules mean you need to request a personal code from the DVLA up to 72 hours before picking up a car either in the UK or abroad. This is so hire firms can check for points, as paper licences are being scrapped for photocard holders. You may not be asked, but to be safe ensure you get one in advance.

  • To get a code, you'll need to request one from the new Share Driving Licence online service that will be launched via Gov.uk or by calling 0300 790 6801.
  • You will need to provide your driving licence number found on your photocard or on your paper driving licence for paper-only motorists, national insurance number and the postcode on your driving licence.
  • Download a PDF of your licence. It will be worth taking as a precaution - though you will still need the code.
  • Give the code to the rental desk when you pick up your car - it effectively gives the company temporary access to your licence info. But, annoyingly, the code only lasts for 72 hours before expiring, so time it right and make sure you don't request it too early.

Some driving organisations such as the AA are also advising motorists to take the paper counterpart of their photocard licence with them too just in case there are any problems. It's also warning drivers who want to hire a car abroad to be extra cautious as overseas car hire firms, or even traffic police abroad, may not be aware of the changes and may demand to see your paper licence.

 





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03 Jun 2015 14:30 by baz1946 Star rating. 2181 posts Send private message

Fat lot of good the AA advice is..."Take the paper counterpart of the driving licence with you" seeing as the DVLA tell you to destroy the paper part after June 8th because it's invalid after this date.

 

 





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03 Jun 2015 15:00 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Baz, I totally agree with your comment that the AA give totally contradictory information to the official DVLA advice, telling you to destroy it. In my case i shall not be destroying it, it will be safely filed away with my documents at home and i will stop carrying it. The reason i will do this is because from personal experience i know the DVLA lose things, and when the do they will not accept they have without documentary proof of their mistake! If ever i send any paperwork to the DVLA I take multiple photocopies of the document before it is sent to the DVLA to lose!





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03 Jun 2015 22:48 by baz1946 Star rating. 2181 posts Send private message

MOST DRIVERS in the UK are unaware the paper part of the driving licence is being scrapped this month. It could leave millions of motorists inconvenienced when trying to hire a car or use their licence as proof of identity.

Car hire firms will no longer require just a driving licence when renting a car in the UK from 8 June. This is because the photo driving licence will not be considered sufficient proof of identity on its own.

Drivers will be able to access the Share Driving Licence scheme, which allows them to print off details required by a car hire firm.

However, no paper counterparts will be issued by the DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency). Any penalty points on a driver’s licence will now be stored electronically and not displayed on the driving licence.

When a driver commits a speeding offence, they will now surrender their photo licence to have the points added but no paper counterpart will be issued.

Sarah Sillars, the Institute of Advanced Drivers’ Chief Executive Officer, said: ‘People are not aware of how many of the current procedures are changing. Similar to the abolition of the tax disc, they assume much of what has happened before will continue.

‘The onus is very much on the individual to obtain the information they need beforehand. So we very much hope people will not be caught unawares, especially if they don’t want a nasty surprise when arriving to collect their car at the start of their holiday.’

The above is from Yahoo UK news,  just another piece of crap to stir something up which aint there or been proved as of yet.

The top piece about not using you're driving licence as proof of identity is also a little suspect.

I was in a Spanish bank last week with a Spanish friend who has lived in the UK for the past 40 plus years and has a UK bus pass, he wanted Euros in exchange for Sterling, the bank asked for his passport, he told them he didn't have it with him, they asked for any ID, he gave over his UK bus pass and told them thats his UK identity card, they gave him the Euros without a second glance at the bus pass.

 

 





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04 Jun 2015 07:53 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Baz, I feel what you say in your thread is from Yahoo UK news is normal press scaremongering, if you shout loud enough in a public domain it has to be true..... doesnt it?? The reply I gave earlier in this thread regarded a letter I have received from the DVLA, and it was sent to me without requesting any information from them so I would think all drivers will be sent this letter shortly, if not already. I dont see a problem hiring a car even in Spain, as if youi telephoned the DVLA line from the car hire counter in Spain, the DVLA would give you an access code over the phone, which the hire company could then validate your licence particulars with. I really do not see that things will be overly more complicated than presently. Still, time will tell.....





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04 Jun 2015 09:09 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1068 posts Send private message

robertt8696.

I really do not see that things will be overly more complicated than presently. Still, time will tell.....

Except that, to get this information, they require your driving licence number and your NI number. Now, the licence number should be no problem but how many people carry something with their NI number on it when going on holiday?

And, as others have pointed out, why is the UK the only country to have this type of system?





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