How Spain has changed in 10 years....??!!!!

 I was talking to a friend who is leaving very soon with 2 young children to go back to the UK.

Something he said would never happen a few years ago...

We were discussing how things have changed in a decade here.....the general mood for one,work,property market etc etc....

It seems ike a lifetime ago now but when i look back,this is a completely different Spain that i first experienced.

Some things for the better others for the worse.

The recession is biting hard now in the villages and since the elections it seem far more visible.

My job helps me understand the general mood a little better than some but i was wondering what the general feel is from other residents here???

 Hi Georgia, I am surprised no one has replied, but I will say something even though I am not a resident.   I think it depends on where you are to some extent.  I was in Madrid before Christmas and was surprised by how little evidence there was of a problem, especially around the Bernabeu.  Though taxi drivers did say 'mucha gente poco dinero' on more than one taxi ride - a good indicator I think.  

In Andalucia, I think things are very bad.  Businesses both Spanish and English are struggling, and quite a few people are working not knowing if they are going to get any pay at the end of the week.   I think this has definitely led to a 'heaviness in the air' - a lack of optimism.    In addition, I think that some expats - previously pretty upbeat, are feeling a bit trapped - or feeling as though their options have narrowed, largely because of property prices and the difficulties of selling should they want to return to the UK or go elsewhere.  Again - a bit of a lack of optimism I think.   I don't think anyone can pretend that things are anything but tough.

I think it not only depends on where you live, but also what your own personal circumstances are.  Dependent on, perhaps, from where your income is derived, exchange rate, do you need to work or not, do you have children, etc.

Obviously, things are bad everywhere - businesses closing down, money is definitely tight, prices increasing in places.  Having said that I know a young couple who left in 2010 and went back to the UK, only to return a year later as they consider they have a better lifestyle here!  

I also see new children, from many different countries, joining the school where my son attends - a fee paying international school - so, obviously, there are those relocating to the area for whatever reason!!

There are many factors to consider, but, for sure, there are many struggling.

Oh yes, Spain is a very different country now. Gone are the days of generous loan conditions, coaxing people to borrow much more than they really needed.

We did the unthinkable and bought offplan GASP!! We were niaive but whoever was up there decided we would get away with it and enjoy a comparatively pleasant life here.

Of course, being retired helps a tremendous amount. I genuinely feel very sad for both Spanish and English people that are struggling. Also so sad to see so many small companies closing down. Which raises the question, why are the Chinese bazaars surviving. We know they are the cause of some shops failing. What is their secret? They carry enormous stock.

I think it will be some years before people will have their dignity restored here in this beautiful country. Señor Rajoy says he intends to do just that, although with drastic measures.

I look forward to better days!!

 Well said Pilgrim.   But I do believe that a good year in terms of visiters to the costas would help to lift the spirits a bit.  They needed Rafa Nadal to stay focused and win.....................................(well I did too - but those days seem to have gone as well!!!)

It's not only small businesses. Spanair this week for example. It does depend where you look - Málaga for example seems as bustling as ever, but here in Torremolinos some of the big names are giving up. McDonalds shut down this week in the town centre, Zara are following soon, and Cortefiel. Opencor closed last year, Chinese have taken over the locale but are opening a Spanish franchise supermarket (Coviran). And that's to name but a few. Smaller privately owned businesses are closing down left right and centre, there's very few bars or restaurants doing any decent trade. It's all rather depressing. It's starting to feel like a case of, last one out, turn the lights off. I think part of the problem is fat cat landlords who are not prepared to give tennants a break and reduce their rents a bit. It's staggering the amount of empty commercial premises, that someone owns and is not bothered about receiving no rent. I really think that in the interest of the overall prosperity and appeal of a town centre, the local authorities should be able to force landlords to let their property at a reduced rate after being empty for a certain period. The place is starting to look derelict.

Yes, it's a different place now. If I could sell my property, I would probably move elsewhere, just to find somewhere a bit more cheerful.

We used to live in Barcelona for some 6-months of the year through the 80s nd 90s and saw the rise of Spain as a Country during that period. Investment was every where (as indeed it was in much of Europe) and there was a lot of smiling faces and work for everyone that wanted it. Summer and Winter seasons were good.

Through the early 00s it continued although we saw signs that the Winter Sun trade was not what it was - other alternatives had opened up and the well healed started to go elsewhere. Then in the late 00s things started to go down hill as borrowing became more difficult. So from 2008 onwards its been a steady decline which seems to suddenly become apparent when stores start to close the range of goods stocked changes and there is an increase of local people gathering during the working day.

By 2008 we had decided to leave Europe as it was no longer a 'happy' place, and that was after living in Europe for 40 years - don't think the media helps as each and every down turn seems to be amplified by the 24x7 need to fill air time and Internet space.

We managed to sell our house in Barca but it took 3 years to sell a rental property we had near Alicante.

I think Roberto sums it up for me - when Macs closes and the town fills with empty units it's not a happy place and more people will stay away.

I hope the Costas have a seasonal boost through the Summer and into the Winter when Northern Europeans will need to cut back on the long haul flights and rediscover the joy that is the Costas.

We finally leave at the end of Feb - we have our flights booked and have a crew who will take our boat to Oz leaving Wednesday - want to get out before someone does something stupid in the Straights.

In many ways we are sad to leave but Europe is not a happy place I know it will recover as will live in Spain - it will just need a bit of time which may extend to a generation.

David

 I am not knocking it - I love Australia - but for sure things have changed there as well.  Prices are really high and there has been a lot of immigration from relatively new places.  For sure I still love the cricket DBS - nothing like the Boxing Day test ( not a lot of joy again today for England - still glad I decided against going).

Bri, prices high if you are paying in non Oz dollars. Have been back and forwards over the last few years and the place is still 'happy'. Sure it has problems but it is not paying huge sums on borrowed money.

We are fortunate in we transfered most of our funds 3-years ago when rates were very different from todays and we own our house at City Beach, Perth; although we may sell and move to the Eastern States to be closer to my sister and the sailing is better.

Iife in Oz is different and I'm just going home to enjoy my retirement years.

David

Wow,  a McDonalds closing down...that's unheard of and definitely a reflection of reality of life in Andalucia at the moment.

Georgia, the same as you, many of the "we'll never go back to UK" brigade have been more or less forced to return.  In our area here on the Costa del Sol many expats have been saved by the thorn in Spain's side which is Gibraltar, which is in its own bubble having noticed no "crisis" whatsoever.  The rock has saved many people here.

Many businesses closing down all over the place.  I was in the Duquesa port last night and it was dead, save for a few English propping up a couple of bars.  This level of custom is just not sustainable in the long run and more are having no option but to close down.

I find, however, that the "higher end" of the market is doing ok.  Expensive restaurants are still expensive and still busy, big villas still being sold, etc.  People with money don't seem so affected.

But yes, it's a very different place.  There was always a real buzz everywhere you went but that has definitely vanished now.  Everyone seems more subdued and thinking more about how to save money than how to spend it....and that's not a good sign for local businesses.

I think 2012 will also be toughest year so far.  On the news they said that in January another 177,000 people lost their jobs!  I just can't see at what point things might start to turn around yet.

Hang on for an even rougher ride.

Justin

@DBS - I read somewhere recently that Oz is experiencing its own property bubble, which is bound to burst soon with the now well-known knock-on effects. Maybe you'll be in a strong position if you can sell your Perth place quick, rent for a few years and then buy cheap in the East? Either way, best of luck with your move back. One thing's for sure, from my experience (some very happy times spent Downunder in the late 80s) the Aussies are nothing if not optimistic and happy. Given the chance, I'd be on the first boat over!

MacDonalds at 24 Hour Square in Benalmádena closed a while ago, as did the one on the beach at Fuengirola. KFC hasn't been seen anywhere nearer than La Cañada in Marbella for years. Burger King seems to be the last giant standing - and I've heard rumours that the one in Torremolinos centre may be closing soon. So far, al the rumours of closures have turned out to be true. Oh, I forgot to mention CAM Bank in my previous list of Torremolinos casualties. Gone.

Other big groups disappeared from Malága: Urende. Gone. Miro. Gone. PC City. Gone....

At least Primark is heaving!

 Just like HIghstreets in the UK then!!!  Loads of empty shops and Primark heaving!!!

I too moved here just over ten years ago... yes so much has changed. Though some of it is for the better.. Health for instance .. I rememer having to sit  in the A & E dept in Bega Baja Hospital on a trolly with a broken hand .. waiting for over two hours and when I saw the doctor he did the plaster cast himself and booked me my next appointment... somewhat different to our beautiful new hospital in Torrevieja where the attention I and my husband have received has been equivalent if not better than a private hospital. But yes on the other side of the coin to see so many empty houses, and shops and bars is depressing. Knowing too so many have lost their livlihoods, their houses and jobs. I too would move if I could (only for the chance to be near my family in Canada to see out the end of my days near them) but for selling my house. Never, I think, could anyone  have foreseen that the bubble would burst. I know we are luckier than some, we have no mortgage, and we just about survive on our pension .But life I believe would be no better back in the UK.. so my choice is to stay in Spain at least for the foreseeable future. I thank Spain for giving us some great  times whilst we have been here I have at least some wonderful memories.

Most posters on this topic are talking about coastal towns, which are heavily dependent on tourism. That's why they're going downhill because there aren't enough people around in the winter for businesses to keep going. And branches of MacDonalds and KFC closing can only be a good thing surely!

Seriously, though, the picture is somewhat different in inland towns which have other industries and don't depend wholly on foreign visitors. It's still worse than a few years back but nowhere near as bad as it seems to be on the coast.

I've been visiting the Ronda area for over 10 years, and have been resident here for the last three. Things have certainly changed quite a bit in that time, but in many respects for the better, in terms of infrastructure, services, etc. Unemployment is quite high and several austerity measures have been introduced in the last year, but something has to be done to balance the books.

Despite the difficulties we shall be staying put.

 I think the title of the thread is a little ambiguous, in that it obviously can differ in many different scenarios.  How has it changed for you personally in whatever your personal situation may be?  How has it changed generally?  How has it changed for those who don't depend on the Spanish system?  How has it changed for those who depend on an external (foreign) income?  Blah, blah...  It really is quite individual - despite the fact that businesses are closing, etc., as that is actually happening in many countries globally.  How that will affect Spain is, indeed, another question ....

 I think the title of the thread is a little ambiguous, in that it obviously can differ in many different scenarios.  How has it changed for you personally in whatever your personal situation may be?  How has it changed generally?  How has it changed for those who don't depend on the Spanish system?  How has it changed for those who depend on an external (foreign) income?  Blah, blah...  It really is quite individual - despite the fact that businesses are closing, etc., as that is actually happening in many countries globally.  How that does and will affect Spain is, indeed, another question ....

I agree with some of the above re business's closing and certainly in the Costa Almeria area it is very noticeable. However, the Spanish do have to take some responsibility and my experiences cannot be unique, having tried to get information for several things including a particular type of generator which was going to be easier to buy in the UK and get it shipped over, an oven, insurance and even a motorbike I got fed up with the poor quality of the Spanish internet, companies not bothering to reply to e mails etc. But the biggest problem I find is the belief that all Brits are rich, my Spanish is pretty good but as soon as the accent is heard the price goes up the latest being a bar in Garucha who wanted 4euros for 2 coffees, when I said they were joking the price went down to 2.60, I have been 'ripped off' with heating oil, logs, car repairs, meals, things in markets, and this has been in the majority, yes there are some honest people around but they are becoming hard to find. I think Spain is still a brilliant country to live in and not just for the weather but if they want to get out of this crisis try making some effort to be 'customer friendly'

Like you, appyinspain, I speak good Spanish, but I look like a guiri. In years gone by if I felt I was being ripped off I used to say so, but it rarely got me anywhere. Nowadays, I just never go back there again and I recommend others avoid the place too. So, it backfires for them in the long term - shame they don't know why their businesses don't thrive.....

Something about killing a goose that lay a golden egg springs to mind. Hard to feel much sympathy.

I live over here on a fixed UK pension and have seen my income drop due to the exchange rate whilst prices have risen astronomically especially the utilities.  I've been trying to sell my home for 4 years now, having dropped the price considerably and even the agents tell me it is a bargain, but I'm not having any visits let alone offers.  I know that money isn't everything but my lack of funds and the isolation, now that so many of my friends have gone, is affecting my life and eroding the pleasure I took from this beautiful country. 

As for what has happened to Spain, I see more and more corruption in high places, more crime and could weep for the ordinary Spanish people who are having such a tough time too.  The only people who seem to be OK are the well-off and the Russians.  The latter are moving in in droves.  

I don't want to be here any more, I feel trapped but can see no way out.  It never occurred to me, like so many other people, that this could ever happen.

I wouldn't go back to the UK but I'd planned to move elsewhere in Europe years ago.  I hope to fulfil that dream before I'm too old.