Lawyers for Conveyancing - Different types?

Hi, Hope someone can help...

We are hoping to purchase our first home in Spain soon.

We seem to have found a very good lawyer to handle the purchase. Only I have just noticed that she is a specialist in Economista - or Tax Laws.

She is offering to do the whole conveyancing package too.

Is this normal? Or does a lawyer have to be leagally qualified in their area of expertise and not a 'Jill of all trades.'  Just want to get it right from the start, as although we think she is fabulous, would she be able to represent us in court (for example) if things went wrong? (We already see some complications on the purchase, but only know half of the story I am sure!)

Firstly I would suggest you check this person is a qualified practising lawyer and registered with the colegio de abogados de Malaga as I think in a previous posting you mentioned Malaga.

http://www.icamalaga.es/portalMalaga/printPortal.do?urlPagina=portalMalaga/PrintPersonas.do&grupo=1&capaActiva=S01500711

The word lawyer or legal consultant is commonly used by non abogados and many have thought they were engaging the services of a lwyer when all they had hired was soe type of gestoria.

But otherwise it's hard to say does she advertise conveyancing? if so it's likely she is doing some and has gained soem experience.

But if you think before you buy you might end up in court then I would think twice about buying a problem property etc

 Conveyancing work can be from the very simple tasks of verifying a previous ownership title and assist you at the completion date at the notary to doing an extensive work involving:

- Checking of previous title ownership, encumbrances, loans

- Verifying of description of property in land registry and possible ammendment processes: new works, first registration, seize ammendment, property claim...

- Taxes reductions involved

- Judicial procedures for defence of legally acquired when disputed...

Therefore, the optimum way is to find a good, well stablished and independent lawyer with an expertise in Property Law.

Maria

We're back to the same question as on previous thread.

How do you find a lawyer who really does specialise in conveyancing. There is no kite mark in Spain.

Johnxz - I agree with you providing you know you way around etc

 Any lawyer can do conveyancing in Spain.

Good Property and Contract Law specialist ( what it is called "civilistas") will go great conveyancing in Spain

Thanks all for your input.

We are now faced with the following decision:

Have found out that the person we would like to use is not in fact a certified abogado in anything. She is an Economista Asesora - Fiscal.  A tax specialist (with a degree in Economics?)  So as Johnx says, a lay person when it comes to doing the paper work involved in a property transaction.

We have yet to ask her does she hire in a qualified lawyer if it is needed. 

Would we be better going with a 'Qualified Abogado/a? (and one who specializes in conveyancing?)  We are hesitating, as the one we went to before we met the above Asesora, had handled the previous buying/selling of the property we are hoping to buy, but either she didn't remember it, or she is being just as laid back about it now as she possibly was then. She also didn't make clear to us the process, that the Asesora jumped on in five mintues!

(Briefly, the property has been sold twice by Compraventa only and the original Escritura holder is now deceased.  We want the correct paperwork to be done to put the Escritura into the current owners name, so that he can legally pass the Title Deed to us with no complications for us!) 

PS - We are trying to put right a whole string of mess, but are also prepared to say 'enough' if there is going to be extra expense involved for us. 

NB We are aware that in the 'old days' it was very common for a property to be sold on with a Compraventa only. But we may want to leave it to our children and don't want them to have the headache of dealing with it, especially if they are UK based.

Dear Susan

The fact that the "legal person" you are working with is not a solicitor or abogado does not surprise me at all.

The word solicitor or lawyer is used very casually in Spain. In UK the word "solicitor" is a protected title but that does not stop people using this title in Spain. This would all be part of a call for greater regulation but as there is no need to use a lawyer who will say who is then allowed to assist you?

I always encourage people to check membership with the appropriate law societies which you can easily do online.

When you use an individual that is qualified by experience then it is always questionable as to how good they really are. The truth is all lawyers are capable of doing conveyancing the fact they don't do it well is becuase they are sloppy and do not really care about their client. We have seen that with firms who were doing 100% conveyancing!. You simply need to find a very caring lawyer who will go the extra mile to ensure you are protected at every step of the transaction. It's not rocket science!

But until such time as the the seller has taken out an escritura in their name you should not pay over one cent as a deposit to seller or estate agent.

Some lawyers say that you can do the acceptance of the inheritance and the compraventa at the same time but I do not like that approach and always insist the seller accepts the inheritance and pays all taxes and registers the property in their name and then we will go before a notary and completion will take place. One of the problems in Spain is that families can be very large and that can lead to problems if it involves say 10 cousins!!

You should not allow your deposit to be used to pay costs of accepting the inheritance or dealing with legalisation etc. If you must show goodwill then insist that your deposit is held in the client account of your solicitor. Your solicitor can give undertakings. Undertakings are not greatly understood in Spain but it is the backbone to UK conveyancing. This was debated 2 years ago when the law society of England & Wales held a joint training session with the colegio de abogados de Malaga.

You should try to find a solicitor/abogado/lawyer who is experienced in conveyancing but at the same time discuss their approach and if you are not in agreement with their approach then find a solicitor with whom you do agree.

Your risk starts when you start handing over money - so don't put yourself at risk - and if lawyers or estate agents say this is how things are done over here - just say well this is not how I work and if I am buying then it will be on my terms or not at all!!!

Also you need to be careful you don't incur too much in the way of legal costs just in case the matter does not proceed so agree abortive costs now. I would suggest EUR500 as being reasonable becuase all your lawyer needs to do is look at paperwork and then tell other side what they need to do (ie accept inheritance and deal with any any issues on legalisation) and then sit back ....... and wait for them to present a new escritura stamped by the property registry or a nota simple in name of vender with correct description/measurement of property etc. - Not exactly rocket science!!

Good luck

Susan

               having now seen:-  

 (Briefly, the property has been sold twice by Compraventa only and the original Escritura holder is now deceased.  We want the correct paperwork to be done to put the Escritura into the current owners name, so that he can legally pass the Title Deed to us with no complications for us!) 

From personal experience and that of friends I would suggest you do not do anything, and certainly not part with a euro, nor commit yourself to any legal expense, until someone has the property registered in  their name.  As said below, their can be many problems with large families in Spain and many legal matters can take forever to resolve.

I would look around for another, readily available, bargain

Susan

Unless you have really fallen in love with this property I would have to agree with John.

You don't need the risk or the hassle.

and don't rely on a previous posting where someone said use a contract lawyer which means settle disputes in court!

Don't part with one cent!

Oh dear!  I think I am in a quandry again.

A big part of me says, 'Don't touch it with a bargepole'. Another says... everything has a solution....

The vendor is obliged to pay all the costs I know to put the paperwork in order.

Our lawyer has said it would be OK to do a Compraventa, make a condition of this to hold back ALL OF THE MONEY, until the court hearing has an outcome.

We would propose to live in the property as a 'Rent to buyt' (again with very tight conditions from our lawyer as to what our rent is used to pay for - i.e it will go 100% towards the purchase price if the Escritura application is successful, he will hold all the money, any fees due will be deducted from the funds and the vendor only gets the cash once all is done and dusted.) This way if it does not go ahead/the outcome is not positive, all we will have lost is money we would have had to pay in rent anyway.

If I make this sound simple, I know it isn't. But this is the lowest risk option that we can come up with. (We have yet to hear if the vendor is interested in taking this route, as he hasn't been presented with it yet.....)

We don't think we will find another bargain at this price.  But taking onboard my own advice, I do acknowledge that 'There is no such thing as a Free Lunch.'

Make sure you have agreed what all this is going to cost you in legal fees.

Otherwise your lawyer will make a meal out of this one and that certainly will not be a free lunch!