When did it all go wrong for some

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what a shame there wasn't a mention of a BG having to be in place before a property can be registered, or compensation for those not supplied with one, or that a court room will be held responsible for their own delays that comprimise 'real'  justice. 

Perhaps next time, if enough people support the calls for common sense change?.

As for the outstanding issues, there should indeed be a compensation package implemented, but it's hard to see where that's coming from?

 ads - I know that - that is why I have talked about progress being made.  There is also more emphasis on information and documents being available in English (though I am at a loss as to why that should be necessary - and it is something we certainly don't provide here in the UK - free translation services.)  The point I made before is still valid and applies all over - the regulations follow the event (banking regulation for example), and Spain is no different from anywhere else.  The fact that the catch up is slow is in part because of the economic situation.  However, since I asked for recognition that things are improving a couple of comments ago - it is good to see that changes are being  recognized. 

Goodstich - nobody has been critical of your attempts to get redress.  Certainly not on this thread. 

Yes, Brian.  And again, hear, hear! 

" A recognition sometimes that things are improving in terms of regulation and that there are many happy house purchasers in Spain, would go a long way to increase support for your cause.  I am much more swayed by the reasonable tone on this thread than I have been by other threads which have descended into rants. "

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

Your posts are so refreshing to read Brian,  and I am glad you are saying it, not me.  LOL.  The lynch-mob would be on my back if I had said the following. 

"Whenever a thread starts here which is about good news or just  a general query, the negative comments pour in.  It is as though we are not allowed to enjoy the country any more.  And you know what?  I know a LOT of expats who have settled in Spain, and they have a blatant disregard to paying Spanish taxes or registering cars etc etc.  How much money is Spain missing out and owned?  Perhaps some of that could go to improving the situation in other areas."

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I forgot to say a huge 'well done' to Keith and everyone involved for their input in to the changes you've mentioned.

Bri

the critisism of redress is sometimes subtle and sometimes takes the shape of clouding the water by comparisons to other issues or trivialising the facts or numbers involved. It's almost always  the same people and most have had a motive like being an agent or some similar link to a financial institution that doesn't want the  truth out there for  fear of damage to sales or reputation. Others are just sick to the teeth of the country they love being criticised when it hasn't hurt them, so repond with critism of those they see as 'ruining the party!'

Well, "Alamillo" you sure got things moving when you started this thread some days ago!.  ROFL. 

  Please do continue posting because we need platforms like yours.  Look forward to reading you.

Patricia 

Its certainly a major concern if some of the active participants on this thread are acting as cover up agents & have dubious motives  - as YOU allege.

You really must share your us your basis/specific evidence for these very serious allegations so that we are all better informed. Many thanks.

Cheers,

Jon

"It's almost always  the same people and most have had a motive like being an agent or some similar link to a financial institution that doesn't want the  truth out there for  fear of damage to sales or reputation"

Jon07

just read between the lines, it's all there if you want to see it?

I'm out of here now, we have had our say, and it's been an interesting thread. Now we are going round in circles, so perhaps best to agree to dissagree where required. 

AGAIN, a great shame no evidence or assistance can be advanced to substantiate these latest allegations !!

Jon

A useful means of gaining a flavour of when it all went wrong for some, can be seen by reviewing the open views in Ruth's petition.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-the-spanish-property-roadshow-open-letter-to-davi/signatures.html

 I have been saying we have to agree to disagree for some time now goodstich, so it will be interesting to see if you are 'out' now.

I sincerely hope that you are not implying that I am an agent or indeed have any interest other than having  bought a property in Spain, which I use regularly and love dearly.  I confess to not being a novice in house buying overseas, I have had holiday homes in France and the USA before Spain.  I can honestly say that when we bought our first holiday home in France in  1985 it never entered our heads that we might make a PROFIT (we didn't - after about 10 years we broke even having put money into the property to improve it - but we had the delight of a holiday home for our kids growing up).  And I think it is really sad that so many now only consider property in terms of what they might get out of it.    However, I digress - so I really just wanted to be absolutely clear about my position.  Not an agent, not a lawyer, just a house owner - a happy house owner. 

Dear All,

congratulations..........but what on earth has that got to do with the thread title and the wrongs we victims have suffered.

Post on the happy threads and stop degrading this one.

Regards

Norman

PS sorry I missed the following....

apparently the lure of sun and golf is so great for some, that when their savings are only partially lost in their mistakes on their first attempt, they repeat the attempt and gain success of a limited sort on the second. I suppose you could view this as a sort of corruption tax to add to all the other costs.

Apparently this leaves happiness of a sort in achieving a half house of sorts to retire to in wonderful Spain, though I wonder whether there is an element of self-deception here and whether that deception would be shared by, perhaps a non-golf loving partner. Just a thought.

I recently met an elderly lady who has sacrificed everything, including her inheritence, to live illegally in a converted stable with her horse and dog. She only leaves her situation in the woods to shop.

She professes total happiness and requests that when she dies she wishes to be consigned to the muck heap like the other stable droppings on the site she loves.

One should never underestimate the power of self deception in humans.

Regards again

Norman
 

Dear All,

if things are improving why do we read this on EOs

Posted by

And this is what they say...

22 July 2011 navidad Parcela I have made 8 forum posts Send private message to navidad

Maria kindly provided details of the individual responsible for Health in Oria, however I have learned over the last couple of days Oria has a new mayor who is PP, previous was PSOE, he was replaced in May.   Sewage is not the only problem in this town, Many of the expats living in the town have paid abogados excessive fees for their conveyancing, one paid in excess and 12,000 euro ust to do his conveyancing and prepare escritura when house was finished.   When they collected the escritura they all learned they had bought a NAVE, naturally none of them knew about this, they were told they had the right licence to build the house, none of them wanted ILLEGAL properties.   These poor people really need help, they are all retired pensioners.    They are living in a road which has raw sewage pouring down it, endanging their health, there are small children actually living in this lane too who are being endangered, the town hall collects their town IBI, they want to pay the house IBI but the town hall says they are illegal.   There have been two deaths recently caused through stress, their partners have no family in Spain and cannot return to the UK because unscroupulous Lawyers have robbed them.   The town hall has ignored the raw sewage problem which has been reported to them again very recently; the spouses of those who died want to return to their family in the UK, they cannot do so because their homes are illegal and cannot be sold, it's not surprising two had stress related heart attacks.  These people have helped the economy, they all used local builders, they shop locally, they use local services such as hairdressers, garages, bars, restaurants, attend the local church too.     They want to pay the IBI for their houses, the town hall will not let them do so because the houses are illegal, yet they issued the licences, surely if they want to pay the IBI they would help the local economy even more Is there anyone out there who can help these poor people without wanting financial gain, what happened to doing things for nothing!   Having set up a cancer charity recently I have learned Charity must start at home!. If I practised law in this way here in the UK the law society would strike me off, so why does not the illustre colegio de abogados tell unsuspecting expats what charges they should pay for conveyancing, if a lawyer here failed in teir duty we would be struck off, how often are Spanish lawyers struck off, so they have a fund, such as we have in the UK, if a lawyers has been negligent you can make a claim/\/

Forgive me for this post. I sit here in amazement as to why anyone would pay €12.000 to complete conveyensing on the purchase of a property in Spain.

Who’s advice if any were they following?

I am not sure what help they need. If extortion is rife in the area.

Even ending up with an illegal property. OMG

I read in this post that

Many of the expats living in the town have paid abogados excessive fees for their conveyance, One paid in excess of 12,000 euro just to do his conveyance and prepare escritoira when his house was finished. 

When I completed on my property the total legal bill from my solicitor based at the La Manga Club complex, including notary and registry fees wills and power of attorney were no more than  €2.500.

Why OH! Why do people let this happen to them.

First of all you have to help yourself'

Dear All,

is that what is called being a good Samaritan?????

or is it just the old "I'm alright Jack"

I doubt that Goodstitch can resist this one!!!

In any case, no you are not forgiven.

Regards

Norman

Dear All,

 "and for the first time in living memory more people are leaving Spain than settling here."

so there you have it, two items from EOS facts and the "whitewash" dries up.

more change is needed methinks.

Regards

Norman

I have followed your comments with interest. My position is that I am a new member on this Forum - have no axe to grind with anyone & simply wish to determine the facts.

Therefore, it would be most helpful if you would now produce specific "QUOTES" from this Forum where people have attempted to whitewash the fact that there is nothing wrong with the Spanish system & that no changes are required.

This is clearly the point you have been making & production of specific "QUOTES" is the best & obvious way to substantiate your allegations. It may also provide an opportunity for people to respond (if necessary) in a calm responsible manner.

Many thanks,

Jon

There have been many occassions over a long period of time where some people have tried to 'whitewash' the true situation, unfortunately I certainly don't have the time (or inclination) to trawl through all of EOS to find  the individual posts but can confirm they do exist.

** EDITED - Spam **