YOU, Ads, may never have said that all lawyers are/were crooks.  You certainly do try to be moderate in your posts.  That cannot be said of others, unfortunately.

There are many ethical lawyers in Spain, not just some.  And as I have said before, and say again, I wish someone would post up and name and shame those law firms/individual lawyers who are crooked or perceived to be crooked.

This is not a debate ads.  Alamillo started out with the question "Where did it all go wrong" and different contributions have been made in reply to that question.

Patricia

campana:

How strange, I thought this was a place to debate these issues, obviously I was wrong.

 As has been explained so well by Rob and ads, the laws are often there but in many cases not implemented.  Are the laws really there though in some of the worst cases?.   Is there a law that says the courts must compensate those they have cheated through delay?.  Is there a law that says those who have been the victims of planning errors by councils will be compensated?  Is there a law that says those who were never provided a BG will be compensated without having to go through years of expensive litigation?.

As for lawyers in Spain and comparisons with the UK.  It's fair to say in the UK that though there are obviously some dodgy lawyers, (though I haver never met one yet in all my UK dealings)  the regulation  ensures they are in the minority.  The exact opposite is true in Spain, the good lawyers are in the minority. 

There's much talk on this thread about those wronged being in the minority, and that may well be the case, but does anyone think that the problems of consumer protection and lack of regulation with regards to legal and planning issues in Spain has only hurt a minority of those involved in  the property industry?.  The problems many victims face are part of the far bigger picture that has wrecked Spains property industry, and those who chose to deny the link are kidding nobody but themselves.

AS I said, Rob, (and there is nothing "strange" about it,) Alamillo posed a question on his/her thread and we all contributed with a variety of views.

Patricia

Campana:

I've always thought that these threads are there to encourage debate &  I've found this thread to be interesting & for once without the personal attacks on both sides that have damaged similar threads.

Dear All,

is someone deliberately trying to cloud the water here?

am I part of a "few" which after considerable hot air became "some"

I thought I was one of many thousands and the sums involved was into billions

what understanding and integrity do you need to attempt to whitewash this scandal??????

the market is controlled by many forces that are ever changing, who knows? perhaps even hot air here has an influence

but in fact the victims opinions are really only a small matter since they have no money left to join again

all shades of opinion but all not without self interest I am afraid

Regards

Norman 

It is indeed an interesting thread, Rob, and I found Brian's contributions to be particularly useful.

Patricia

Norman

Anyone who tries to 'whitewash the scandal', or  'cloud the water' stands out as having a motive, and despite some words to the contrary are not really supportive of the victims, prefering to try and trivialise the amount of people involved and the crimes against them.  The facts and the evidence are all  there, but much like the demands to the Spanish government for common sense change and justice,  they fall on deaf ears!

Gosh, it could even get "wronger".

http://belegal.com/blog-by-antonio-flores/how-to-prey-on-despair/

Is there any evidence of anyone on this thread attempting to "whitewash the issue" or having a "personal" motive ?

Have not been following thread too closely & so might well have missed something !

Cheers,

Jon

No Jon, there is no evidence whatsoever, and I cannot see anyone here on this thread or on any other trying to "whitewash the issue".    As for having a "personal" motive, I am not sure exactly what this kind of insinuation is supposed to mean.

Best regards,

Patricia

well that's made me chuckle anyway .

Patricia

the 'wronger' article you pointed to is a real can of worms.  It's about a well known law company on here having a pop at another well known law company on here because of their supposed links to a well respected petition writer. All very strange?.

So, in the absence of any specific evidence of a "whitewash" or "personal motive" by anyone on this thread - may we return to a mature focused discussion ?

Alternatively, if there is specific evidence, can someone define what this is ?

Cheers,

Jon

Fully agree, Jon.

And here is what "Alamillo" said at the outset:

........and so say all of us.

Since our friend appears unable to assist us on the "whitewash" & "personal motive" issues, hopefully we may now return to a mature focused discussion.

Cheers,

Jon

........go on then??

 just to add some levity to the situation and put it into perspective in the bad Spanish legal system v fanatstic UK legal system debate.

Equitable life (British Company) are reported to have conned (British people) while being regulated (by the  British legal system) and were allowed to get away with this by the (British government) to the tune of an estimated £7,000,000,0000 (SEVEN BILLION QUID).

Shouldn't we all be signing that petition as well?

and if this is the benchmark then Spain has some way to go yet?

I also think a lot of people are going on about change in Spain without actually realising how much it actually has changed already.

I also feel sorry for anyone that has lost money to anyone, ever,wherever in the world,i personally choose to fight for other causes such as abused mothers and children here in Spain and if you visit one of these Hostels you would see why!

I think they would swap your predicament for theirs ina heartbeat,and the next time you ask if we have all signed your petition,ask yourselves,have you signed theirs? and if not, then why?

Back to the thread topic, when did it all go wrong for some.

Jose Blanco blames the banks

THREE years into the recession, several senior Spanish government officials have stated what many would consider the obvious. The Minister of Public Works, Jose Blanco, criticized the financial sector for their part in the real estate downfall saying that “many mortgages should never have been approved”.

His comments were similar to those of former Interior Minister, Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba, who said recently that “banks have to earn money, but not at the cost of other people”, and union UGT’s Secretary General, Candido Mendez, who called the Labour Minister, Valeriano Gomez’s idea to put new extremely high taxes on the salaries of bank managers as a “idiotic” (although the expression he used in the context was much more vulgar).

Blanco said that banks “hadn’t properly analyzed the risks of granting certain mortgages” and that he knew of many whose managers set them a target number of mortgages for each month, leading to massive debts”. “Now we are suffering the consequences” he said, “as many people can’t pay their mortgages, and wouldn’t be able to even if we weren’t in a financial crisis”.

When asked about the responsibility of the Bank of Spain, he explained that they can’t check every mortgage”.

He suggested that this was an opportunity to “learn from the errors of the past” and “not make them again”.

He admitted that although no-one is forced into taking a mortgage, “the banks were responsible for analyzing the risk of exaggerated valuations and offering people benefits if they did so”.

He also criticized the salaries of bank managers which went into the millions at a time when society was being asked for austerity.

By Anna Wibrow – EURO WEEKLY NEWS

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, that’s a start Mr Blanco.  Maybe very soon you will finally admit the truth and also blame the banks for their failure to comply with their obligations under LEY 57/68.

p.s. Georgia...it might be worth letting people know the website petition address of the cause you identified, on a new dedicated thread.