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We were in the same position & Cam bank took our cash & 210 forms without an envelope last year & this year.
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Thanks flybynight will give it a go at my bank.
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We just took the forms to the bank last year. They stamped them, we paid the amount due and that was that. All done.
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Regards
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As for the envelopes, it depends when and where you bank. I use several banks locally and get a different response everytime, so am now well prepared with my own envelopes.
Just to throw in a response to some of the earlier threads and I am NOT SCARE MONGERING. This week I have completed five year's worth of non resident tax forms on behalf of somebody who has just sold his house as a non resident with the 3% being witheld by solicitor/tax office on the modelo 211 when sale went through. He has just completed the modelo 212 to reclaim his 3% and has been told he needs to submit modelo 214 and 210 for the 5 years of unpaid tax before they will process his request. He is being charged in full for his non resident taxes plus fines for late payment .... not much to refund if any at the end of it. Really can you hope to escape the tax man?
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leswill - at the moment that appears to be the only time the tax authorities are picking up on missing returns.
But in most cases these people are quids in when you take into account all the years they have owned their property and never filed a return saving both legal/tax fees and taxes and the tax office can only go back 4 years fromd the date the tax should have been paid - especially when you take into account with wealth tax it was a lot more tax to pay.
Sometimes prior to filing modelo 212 for CGT refund it's best to file outstanding 210/214 to speed up the refund process.
On a professional level I say file but on a personal level I say why bother?
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I am a non-resident and currently have an apartment which I rent out. Ihave been paying quarterly taxes which my Spanish accountant says I must do.
As the property is not rented out a great deal, I end up paying as much in accountant fees as I do in taxes most of the time.
Does anyone else have to do quarterly returns? In doesn't sound right to me and mostly I read about people doing annual returns.
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With respect to "Income Tax" and the stated non-discrimination against non-residents and spanish residents, am I right in understanding that if as a non-resident property owner in Spain, whom does not own another property outside of Spain, would not have to pay the non-residents Income Tax, when the property in Spain is not rented out and any income earned? Spain's argument being that they apply the Valor Catastral calculated income tax to Spanish tax residents who own second homes.
Also, Norway Tax authorities has stated in writing that they do not recognize Spain's "Income tax" for non-residents using the property casdral value calculation, as there is no earnings or "income" to set this against.
Norway, although not in the EU, Norway is a member of the EEA and also has a Tax treaty with Spain that allows for income tax paid in Spain to be credited in Norway and vice versa. Even when challenged further, Norway states Spain's non-resident income tax is not an income tax when there is no actual income.
My opinion is that if you are a non-resident and state that you have no earnings from a property you own in Spain on your tax return, then the responsibility lies with the Spanish Tax office to dis-prove this statement in order to claim income tax against you. Checking this out is quite an easy action for them to undertake.
Spain wishes to promote itself to the rest of Europe, but this Non-residents income tax applied when there is no actual earnings or rental is definitely not the way to go about it. I for one who has historically paid all my taxes and looking to purchase a larger property in Spain in the future, I am now looking to either transfer my property to a uk/eu company or pull out of Spain altogether, either way Spain, will lose my taxes and the other sizeable financial contributions I make throughout the year. because of this petty tax.
I know the world is getting much worst with its financial woes, and countries are now fighting each other to retain their own share of tax revenues, but how can there be a legal claim for income tax when there is no actual earnings or income, unless you live under junta rule that is!
Tre-Pol-Pen
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Tre-Pol-Pen
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Tre Pol Pen
It is not tax on an income from the property. If you had an income from renting, then you would have to declare that on an income tax return and pay 24% on the gross sum collected, with no allowances even for electric consumption, water etc.
The non-resident property tax (it does not matter if you own or do not own property elswhere, only that your not resident in Spain) is because the government see that the benefit you have to stay 'rent free' in your property is tantamount to having an income. In UK , a person who say is caretaker for a building, has to pay tax on any free accommodation he might have. It’s the same principle in Spain.
Incidentally, it is payable by all non resident property owners including for example the Spanish ambassador to Norway, if he has a property in Spain. So it is not discriminatory.
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Hi Johnzx,
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate what you have said, however, the agenciatributaria web site puts out a document "Non-Resident Income Tax" in English (I think it was possibly Maria who had a link in her blog, I cannot find the direct link at the moment but have a printed copy) this document is clearly defined as relating to a Income Tax, the fact the Spanish authorities use the Valor Catastral to calculate the amount payable is neither here nor there, it is defined as an income tax. You cannot apply a special income tax to a non-resident that would not be applicable to a resident with only one residence or 'owned' property whether they stay at that property or not.
Some years ago Spain where taken to task for the "property" or wealth tax against non-residents.
A Spanish tax resident would not be taxed for use of there home in Spain. The same should be said for a non-tax-resident who owns a property in Spain, and no other properties outside of Spain. I 100% agree if a property is rented out then tax would be due on any profits the same as any resident in Spain, I think you will find expenses are deductable from those incomes, the same as for residents.
Your interpretation of this "non-residents income tax" would apply when someone has the use of effectively free accommodation or some other perk or gain connected with their employment. HMRC and Norway tax authorities to that respect will tax for what they see as a "perk of the job or a payment in kind" but this is connected to someone under an employment situation, that are getting that perk or gain because of, or through their employment. Your argument dictates that a person's property is always connected with a personal gain or earnings ie renting out. In that case all properties should be exposed to the same income tax. Many people own properties in Spain who do not rent out their properties or get any financial or other credit/compensation from the property. As I stated before if the non-resident person filing their tax return in Spain, state on the return that they have no income then this is legally binding and subject to the Spanish Tax authority to prove otherwise.
As another slant. Should all residents pay an "income tax" on legal Spanish cars they own in Spain, because they might rent them out or allow free use to friends while they are not in Spain? - Certainly not, as you would have to enforce the same "income tax" against all tax residents.
One certainty in life is we all have to pay taxes, but those taxes should be fair and not discrimitory or biased against certain persons than others.
Tre-Pol-Pen
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Tre-Pol-Pen
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Tre Pol Pen
I did not invent the tax I was just trying to explain what it is.
http://www.abacoconnect.com/non-resident-taxes-in-spain?gclid=CKrWneqfoqwCFZJc4Qod7F4sAg
Own a property as a non-resident? Then you must pay income tax on your holiday home.
In Spain, if you have a property it is automatically considered as a type of income and all owners named on the Title Deed should present an annual declaration for each property owned. Most owners are still unaware of this.
It is important to understand that this is an Income Tax on your property and is separate from, and in addition to, the Local Tax/IBI/SUMA (which is an annual payment on the actual bricks and mortar). It does not relate to income in terms of your wages or your pensions, but only to property ownership.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 06/11/2011.
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The tax you are referring to actually translates into English as 'imputed income' - renta imputada (02).
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I tried to persuade Brussels that the non-resident imputed income tax was discriminatory. I was unsuccessful. I did however persuade them that it was discriminatory to allow expenses against actual income from rentals to residents but not non-residents. This was of no benefit to me as I do not rent out my property, although it is of value to others. I am still waiting for them to take action against the Spanish Government in relation to inheritance taxes which they have agreed are discriminatory. Again, of no benefit to me personally as I have no one to leave my property to.
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Norm de Plume
Well done on your actions in Brussels.
Has there been a tangible result on the rental properties allowances, and did you raise the point that non-residents start paying the tax at 24%, higher than residents.
In what way was inheritance tax (which varies across the autonomous regions) considered discriminatory ?
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Allowances against rental income are now in effect.
24% applies to both Spanish and non-Spanish non-residents, therefore said not be discriminatory.
Regional variations in Inheritance tax are in themselves discriminatory.
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I am almost certain that the starting tax rate for resident landlords is less and for sure they can deduct items like Electricity and Water bills, wear and tear, maintenance etc. but non resident landlords cannot..
Have they changed the law / implementation of the law ?
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Well Norm is it a secret, or are you going to tell the people, who may want to know, where they can read what you read ?
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Norm de Plume
I agree with everything you have said about this non resident tax . We resisted paying it for 3 years but eventually capitulated and paid the tax very reluctantly I may add. I love Spain but if it was not for the fact that my husband's family are all nearlby I would on no account buy a property in Spain . Maybe it is because I am getting older but the sun does not have all the attractions it had years ago and the nearer I get to retirement the more I appreciate the UK
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Johnzx - you'll find it on the aeat website.
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Norm
Thanks again, but as you obviously know exactly where the info is, could you direct those who would like to confirm it (I am not one of them) and especially those who may not have much, if any Spanish (again, I am not one of them).
Thanks again, on behalf of those which this info will assist.
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