Why ?? ??

Why does every problem in Southern Spain need a fight to get a complaint even answered ?? 

I have a major problem with an electrical appliance manufactured by a Global company with HQ in Germany. Naturally I had to contact their Madrid office who have not only totally ignored emails sent from myself but also from their HQ.

I love living in Spain BUT when there is a problem then shooting oneself in the foot seems to be a less painful option.

I feel your frustration. I gave up struggling a while back. If something breaks I do without it. In fact, I just don´t buy anything anymore, saves the hassle.

Susan

"I just don´t buy anything anymore, saves the hassle."

I just love this answer!

But joking aside, I believe most of us live far more complicated lives than necessary. I imagine simple nomadic people living in the wilds of Outer Mongolia or some such place are far more content than those of us in the "civilized" world, with all our technology designed to make life easier.

Roberto

sounds like you are making excuses for a poor system?. I feel  It's partly that similar attitude that has landed Spain in it's current mess. If people just put up with bad service/ lies /deception etc, as 'when in Spain'  then how can we expect change that would bring the badly needed recovery? . As has happened so often, the bad guys take advantage, as many crooked agents from the UK have done in Spain, hand in hand with crooked Spanish developers.

Even if a system can't be changed, I feel the faults should at least be recognised, UK, Spain or anywhere. It's then up to everyone to decide if that system is right for them?

We are, of course, talking about the system for getting electrical appliances repaired, right? Or were you, by any chance, attempting to hijack, yet again, a thread which is unrelated to your own troubles? How the Hell can you interpret my comments as making excuses for the Spanish judicial system??

When will you finally accept that the vast majority of the members on this forum are sick and tired of you and your boring, repetitive vilification of Spain and everything associated with it?

I would love to not to have to replace this electrical appliance but not only is it rather necessary for cooking but have a ruddy great hole in my worktop.

quote goodstich44"  If people just put up with bad service/ lies /deception etc, as 'when in Spain'  then how can we expect change that would bring the badly needed recovery? .unquote.

 I have to agree with this comment. My Spanish friends say complaining about anything is southern Spain just isn't worth the hassle,  Complaints falling on deaf ears so people don't bother. That's why the system is as it is and until the Spanish here  start fighting back it will continue to be so. 

As of today German HQ are still waiting for their Spanish employees to respond and meanwhile I am pening a letter to the boss of this organisation. If the Spanish stand for this type of treatment then sobeit. However I will not. I might not win but I shall go down fighting.

Roberto

I try to keep out of the argy bargey that sometimes goes on , but I have to say  I found your last post to Goodstich44 quite shocking and unecessary. His post was relevant but your post seems to be deliberately provocative. I do not intend to get into a lengthy argument about this, I've said my piece and will not comment further, but I think you owe Goodstich44 an apology for this nasty rant.

Regards,

Poppyseed

I dont think you get a poorer response to complaints in Spain than anywhere else. I disagree with anyone, Spanish or otherwise, who thinks you do. You get good and bad responses to complaints everywhere, Spain, the UK, Germany and so on.

I recently took a pair of running shoes back to El Corte Ingles having worn them once (gone running in them that is) and realised they were the wrong size and they didnt even look at them. They listened to my story and simply offered me a new pair of the right size. I was expecting to be told I had to keep them because I'd worn them. Not a story about a complaint but one of outstanding customer service.

I think how you complain is very important. For example "I hate your company and will never go near you again" pisses off the person you're talking  to gives them no incentive to be helpful because by your own admission they've lost you anyway. Whereas " I like your company and I'd like to buy more from you but I feel you've let me down on this occasion" is far more likely to elicit a favourable response.

Dont forget there are a lot of professional complainers about who make a point of complaining when there's nothing wrong in order to try and get something back. Businesses have to be on the look out for those and they need our support in weeding out people who try to cheat them like this.

So I'm aware I am treading where there probably arent too many angels but these are my thoughts on the subject. 

Poppyseed: I think you are reading this thread back to front.

Roberto said: I believe most of us live far more complicated lives than necessary. I imagine simple nomadic people living in the wilds of Outer Mongolia or some such place are far more content than those of us in the "civilized" world, with all our technology designed to make life easier.

Goodstich responded: sounds like you are making excuses for a poor system?. I feel  It's partly that similar attitude that has landed Spain in it's current mess

What excuses? What "attitude"? Who's provoking who?

No apology. His post was not relevant. He has one agenda and one agenda only. This thread has nothing to do with the Spanish judicial system or corruption in the construction industry. I have no idea how he could have read that between the lines of my post, and feel quite offended that he obviously did, and tried to twist my words to suit.

Perhaps my post wasn't particularly relevant either - it was more in response to Susans (I thought) amusing post than the original poster, so if any apology is due it's for that. I am not unsympathetic to floellas dilemna, and applaud his/her stance. Yes, it's true, at times one can feel like screaming at the lack of customer service and the apparent f....you attitude here - but as John W points out, these situations are by no means unique to Spain. Ever tried getting decent customer service from Halifax in the UK? Generally I think the bigger the organisation, the worse the service. But this is the world we live in - globalisation in the name of progress. The only point I was trying to make was that the more "advanced" we become, the more problems we seem to create for ourselves. If anyone chooses to interpret that as supporting and encouraging corruption and fraud on a grand scale, then - tough.

Floella/ Poppyseed

Well done you!.. Thankfully there are many like yourselves who do recognise that problems like bad customer service, and people not standing up for their rights are part of the much bigger picture.

Thanks also for your kind words.

Roberto wrote

"But this is the world we live in - globalisation in the name of progress. The only point I was trying to make was that the more "advanced" we become, the more problems we seem to create for ourselves. "

Fair point, but equally those like Goodstich who are fighting for change to a mindset where bad pratice becomes the norm has every right to voice their opinions, highlight problems and more importantly make suggestions for workable alternatives. Methinks there is a touch of over sensitivity going on here. Shame really to personalise a reasonable debate.

John Wolfendale, I am by nature a mediator and so prefer to discuss issues and would never  appear on anyones list as a serial complainer. 

In my dealings with this company I  have not demanded anything merely asked if this was considered a normal life span of this particular electrical product  and have signed off requesting their thoughts on the matter.

One the very rare occasions I have needed to inquire thus it has normally resulted in reaching an agreement that everyone is happy with. Whereas those who rant and rave rarely achieve their goals.Anywhere in the world.

However in 2 months Madrid have not even had the courtesy to even acknowledge my emails or to respond to their  German employers

I have been in contact with both the UK branch and, in error believing I was emailing German HQ, the Californian branch. Both of whom have been incredibly helpful to the point where, without my asking, they have given me the  details of who to contact in Germany. Both openly admitting they had several major issues with the Madrid branch .

At the moment I am being guarded in what I write because for 40 years I have had nothing but respect for this Global company and  would still endorse their products. However in the future, where Spain is concerned, think it best to  buy cheap and replace if  the product goes into a complete meltdown as my mega expensive product has.

Having read many postings by goodstich44 personally believe if he had often rephrased his very legitimate complaint he would have not got so angry when percieving injustices from others.

Spain is changing but one cannot deny that many businesses here still believe that by ignoring a complaint it will disappear.

I just read this thread and picked up on this comment by John Wolfendale:

I recently took a pair of running shoes back to El Corte Ingles having worn them once (gone running in them that is) and realised they were the wrong size and they didnt even look at them. They listened to my story and simply offered me a new pair of the right size. I was expecting to be told I had to keep them because I'd worn them. Not a story about a complaint but one of outstanding customer service.

I expect some other poor unsuspecting soul will be sold these "second hand" shoes as being new!!  GREAT customer service.

ads

yes, that is indeed the point I was trying to make, before the personal attack from Roberto. Until the Spanish themselves adopt  a mindset of it not being acceptable to be walked all over, then how can we expect those who make the rules to put their house in order?. That point isn't limited to houshold goods consumer complaints, but all consumer and legal issues , not least the Spanish property industry and all involved.

Who knows maybe the Spanish are content with their discontentment?

Unfortunately it helps if you are a man taking things back in Spain. I took a dress back to a shop as it was too small, the next size up was too big. The best they could do was offer me a "vale", my dad walked into the shop two minutes later and he demanded a refund and they did it.

Susan

Isn't this demanding tack expected in Spain, whether male or female Susan?

Yes I think you have a point ads, my dad is Italian so he is naturally more direct and demanding,I used to get embarrased as a child because he seemed quite rude and ubrupt, unfortunately I have taken after my mother.

Susan

Floella - I am sure you are charming and didnt mean to imply otherwise. I sympathise with your story.

Tish - no the running shoes will go back to the factory. El Corte Ingles is successful because it has integrity.

I dont think its sufficient to explain this at the level of being Spanish or being British or German or whatever. There are cultural differences and differences in habits but if someone gives you poor customer service then it is helpful to think about it and deal with it at an individual level. So instead of thinking "that person gave me poor service because they were Spanish" think "that person gave me poor service because they fill in the gap, (havnt been trained, are in the wrong job for their personality, have just been bereaved etc).

Its a helpful way of thinking about it because at an individual level we are not who or what we are because of our nationality but because of our personality background, current mood etc. So obviously your cultural background influences your behaviour but think about any one act you did and ask yourself if you did it because you were say British or whoever you are.

I think its natural and possibly instinctive for expats to blame their host culture everytime something goes wrong. I expect the expat Spanish community in the UK does the same (must check this out!) and I believe we need to check ourselves when we do this because really its very much the same everywhere. I know many Spanish people who embody all the supposedly good qualities of traditional Bristish values and plenty of British people who who embody the supposedly Spanish national character traits.

The real point here is that I think it will make us more effective in situations where we need to solve problems and get the results we want and I think it makes our experience of being an expat more enjoyable.

Comments please.

John

while that's an admirable veiwpoint, I don't feel perhaps it's the reality?. I agree you can't put a whole nations people in the same basket, but if  the majority accept corruption as 'the way it is', then we shouldn't be suprised if the majority don't back the people wronged through no fault of their own?

In the same way, I do feel the system is at fault because unless you have a common standpoint on basic right and wrong with regard to consumer rights, legal issues, justice, corruption etc, then how can you reach a stage where people are being treated in a resonable manner by those we have to trust to know right from wrong?