Requirement to carry passport

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08 Feb 2020 14:30 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

This is an extract from 

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/02/07/british-in-spain-must-carry-passport-at-all-times-or-risk-being-detained-by-police-uk-foreign-office-warns/?utm_source=The+Olive+Press&utm_campaign=b1493be4ce-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1d58de7357-b1493be4ce-332731771#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss
 

BRITS travelling to Spain have been warned to keep their passports on them at all times or risk being detained. 

The warning has been made by the UK’s Foreign Office, which reiterated that police in Spain have the right to demand to see ID.

If you fail to provide a valid document, they can detain you.

Despite popular belief, a driver’s licence is not sufficient and only a passport or a high quality photocopy is acceptable.





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08 Feb 2020 14:48 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 941 posts Send private message

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But surely that applies to every EU and NON EU citizen. There cannot be a separate Spanish law for British nationals only.



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08 Feb 2020 15:26 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

The article says ,  "The warning has been made by the UK’s Foreign Office,"

Of course it applies to everyone in spain, and almost all comply.   That is with the exception of brits who seem think such laws don't apply to them.  So I guess the article seemed necessary for the Brits.





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08 Feb 2020 15:28 by baz1946 Star rating. 2179 posts Send private message

Been like that for years anyway, many times,  NOT always though, when we have bought something the shop assistant has asked to see our passport. Once when I did get stopped by the cops he only asked what I was doing, not for any ID.

How about a UK bus pass? After all one guy came back from Spain to the UK with just this and they had to accept it.

Another load of jumped up rubbish probably started by the tea boy in a back room office.





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08 Feb 2020 16:23 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

Thanks baz for confirming that most brits do not think the law applies to them 





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08 Feb 2020 16:57 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 941 posts Send private message

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Brits are the most law abiding citizens throughout the world. This is all more fake news.



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08 Feb 2020 18:06 by baz1946 Star rating. 2179 posts Send private message

Thanks baz for confirming that most brits do not think the law applies to them 

So do please tell where in my post it said anything like 'Most Brits do not think the law applies to them'

The guy who came back from Spain had his passport and other items stolen from the hotel safe, they couldn't get to him all the documents needed for him to come back to the UK, so he winged it on a chance with his UK Bus Pass, not one problem getting out of Spain, so it was reported, when he got to the Uk border force stopped him, explained why no doc's and using his Bus pass, he pointed out that the Buss Pass was issued in conjunction with the British Government, obversely with a few more checks he was allowed in......This was reported in the TV news a few months back.

The Spanish cop that stopped me was doing normal road checks, we came back up the road, around the roundabout, he pulled me over and asked why I came back up the same road, I said to get to that restaurant over they're, okay on your way, no ID shown or asked for.

The person who denies showing a cop ID when asked, UK or Spain is a fool.

And in case you don't know any genuine British person once proved is never. And cannot be refused, entry back to England with, or without documents.

Probably made up like getting rid of all new Diesel and Petrol cars, and now even Hybrid cars





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08 Feb 2020 19:11 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

Just a couple of comments Baz.

One only needs a passport to enter another country, so a UK national does not need a passport to enter the UK. 

Of course being allowed to board an aircraft without a Travel Document is difficult. The reason is that if a person is refused entry the airline must return the person to the airport where they boarded,  on THE NEXT FLIGHT BACK.  Note, that is not the next available seat. Thus an airline might need to bounce a passenger in order to have a seat for  the a person refused entry.

Of course not all police officers require one to produce proof of ID, it depends on the circumstances.  Some officers might be more strict than others and some might be more understanding.   Also not all officers know the law on all matters so some may not even know the law regarding UK nationals having proof of ID.

Twenty years ago police quite often insisted that people making crime reports etc. had to have their original Passport and it was not uncommon for them to be required to return to their home / hotel to get it, even when they were old and had difficulty walking.  Times have changed and my experience is that they are quite likely to accept almost anything as `an ID´ or even not insust an any ID.  I used to argue that a person who had lost their Passport did not have one, and so wee like those who had forgotten to bring theirs.. They just did not have their passport with them    The police over the years have accepted that and are usually  quite understanding now.

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 08/02/2020.



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08 Feb 2020 20:24 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 941 posts Send private message

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Perhaps it would be better for the authorities to implement the law of the country you are in than make it up as they go along, then everyone knows where they stand.



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09 Feb 2020 16:23 by Marksfish Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 2559 posts Send private message

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The article has been debunked by N332 here.





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09 Feb 2020 17:47 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

The info appears to be confirmed by UK Gov

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/travel-advice-real-madrid-cf-vs-manchester-city-fc

 

Extract  :   you must provide ID (your passport) if requested by a police officer. The police have the right to hold you at a police station until your identity is confirmed

 





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09 Feb 2020 18:01 by baz1946 Star rating. 2179 posts Send private message

What's Manchester got to do with being stopped in Spain?





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09 Feb 2020 19:16 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

10 Feb 2020 11:34 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

So long as there is an inconsistency of " strictness " by the Police then perhaps best to err on the side of caution and remain respectful of the need for proof of identity and carry your passport accordingly?

The purpose of this presumably is to have spot checks to act as disincentive to criminal or illegal activity..is this correct John?

On the other hand the problem then comes if this in itself ironically places people at greater risk of having the passport they are carrying stolen? Has this increased risk been considered by the Police John? What action is taken if you don't carry your passport...do you have the option of a number of hours to present your passport to act as legitimacy, or is there risk of an on the spot fine? 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 10/02/2020.



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10 Feb 2020 14:16 by baz1946 Star rating. 2179 posts Send private message

Carrying ID

Every­one in Spain must carry gov­ern­ment is­sued ID at all times, re­gard­less of whether we are Span­ish, an EU na­tional, or a for­eigner liv­ing or hol­i­day­ing in the coun­try.

The spe­cific law is Art­icle 4 of Or­ganic Law 4/​2000 which states that for­eign na­tion­als in Spain must carry iden­tity doc­u­ments is­sued by the coun­try of cit­izen­ship.

Thus, if you live in Spain, and you don,t have Span­ish gov­ern­ment is­sued photo ID, you must carry at all times your own na­tion,s photo ID, in the case of Brit­ish cit­izens this means our pass­port.

There is no ob­lig­a­tion on the part of au­thor­it­ies in Spain to give you 72 hours or some other reas­on­able amount of time to present your doc­u­ment­a­tion. Quite simply, if you do not pro­duce an iden­tity doc­u­ment on de­mand when asked by law en­force­ment of­ficers (Poli­cia Nacional, Guardia Civil, Poli­cia Local) then you could be de­tained and fined.

Most of­ficers of the law will let you off with a verbal warn­ing if you don,t have your ID on you, but this is not a re­quire­ment on their part. If you can­not identify your­self, they can ar­rest you, un­til they have iden­ti­fied you then will set you free. Ob­vi­ously it is be­cause of ter­ror­ists, sus­pec­ted crim­in­als etc. and someone not able or will­ing to identify them­selves could be sus­pi­cious.

Their you go, now we all know, all we have to do now is wait for the 'Told you so brigade' to crop up.





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10 Feb 2020 20:17 by Sten46 Star rating in Hatton, Derbyshire &.... 246 posts Send private message

Many years ago, we got credit-card sized laminated colour copies of our passports made at a local copisteria at a cost of 60cents each and carry these. (Renewed as and when passports were)

We were recommended this course by an ex-police officer from Mansfield who lived here (now no longer with us). He actually had his passport stolen just prior to returning and this card was accepted at Alicante and East Midlands airports.

Frankly, I would  be most unhappy about carrying an original passport all the time as one is too valuable to risk loss or theft uneccessarily.

Steve



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10 Feb 2020 20:23 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 941 posts Send private message

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Would a certified copy of a passport be acceptable and legal?



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10 Feb 2020 21:03 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

Yes a certified copy of the passport is ok, providing it is certified by the British passport office or a British consulate.   Nothing else is legal.

The police told me that was because only those authorities could be 100% certain that the 'original' from which the copy was made was a genuine British passport and not a good copy

 

 

 

 





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11 Feb 2020 09:46 by baz1946 Star rating. 2179 posts Send private message

  • bank or building society official
  • councillor
  • minister of religion
  • dentist
  • chartered accountant
  • solicitor or notary
  • teacher or lecturer

Any one of the above people can certify correctly a copy of a genuine UK passport.





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11 Feb 2020 10:03 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5241 posts Send private message

That maybe true in UK but unless you want problems do not try that with the police, courts, etc. in Spain

Of course that list includes some of the people IN THE UK who can certify a BRITISH passport application and the photo submitted with it.  Even as a former uk police officer I occasionally sign uk applications for friends who live in spain.

PS I see baz the list you show is the same as the uk gov web page.  
https://www.gov.uk/certifying-a-document

Note:   Not a Spanish government page


This message was last edited by johnzx on 11/02/2020.



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