Innocent Brits to be evicted from their homes.

I thought it was more the fact that there is no habitation licence rather than turistico status that causes the problem Windtalker. 

But I'm sure Maria will re-clarify the legal status with regard to occupying etc the property when there is no habitation licence in place on a turistico property.

But the point about the people under threat of eviction is that they appear to have never been informed of turistico status nor perhaps that there was no habitation licence in place?

Yes, Ads is fully correct. It is the lack of habitation license ( which reflects an Urban Planning problem) that impedes you to legally inhabit it, rent it out, give it as the guarantee or any loan or....sell it; in short, situates the asset out of the legal traffic. 

Law and Courts have solved the problem of illegal off plan inhabited houses quite wisely by applying Law 57/68 to these cases. Any mortgage connected with the illegal property can also be considered null and void ( and therefore costs of repayments handed back with interests), bringing the situation very close to full restitution.

Let´s keep apart the moral damages that can also be claimed in a separate action.

Maria ..can you tell me ...can you live in a Property that is classed as  Touristic ......if you do not want to rent to holiday maker's.

I thought that ANY property without habitation licence will be deemed to be non compliant with planning laws... That's the whole point of habitation licences Windtalker to ensure that developments comply with planning rules, so any property without licences are deemed to be flouting the planning rules, presumably set in place by regional authorities. Is this correct Maria?

Are there areas within Camposol that do have licences or is the whole development compromised?

What appears to be happening here is that Notaries and conveyancing lawyers and Town Hall  who allow resales, who accept IBI payments, etc, are turning a blind eye to the non provision  of habitation licences on this development, preferring to leave the risks that Maria has already identified associated with urban illegalities to be firmly placed on the purchaser! 

This only goes to prove that this loophole in the conveyancing  system that fails to make habitation licence a MANDATORY requirement at point of purchase,  has proved to be the vehicle through which these illegalities and purchaser risks have arisen. 

So returning to the situation of evictions, it will be interesting to see if risks associated with not being informed of turistico status has contributed to breach of contract, or whether this AND  non provision of habitation  licence are both factors linked to breach of contract ( since LFO is required under Ley 57/ 68 law) making guarantor Banks/Insurance companies ultimately responsible when the developer becomes insolvent and breach of contract has been legally proven. BUT are there also now timeframe restrictions to consider here ( 15 years?).

Perhaps Maria or Keith can confirm if this is correct?

This message was last edited by ads on 30/11/2017.

Adds Camposol has 4 sectors a/b/c/d....Approximately 4,500 properties ...none of these properties have a habitation cert ...the same goes for Mazorron country club this is a big site and they have no  habitation certs ...yet both sites have all the utility services and also pay IBI.

Hi windtalker.  

How can the properties be sold and habitable, without a habitation certificate?

It sort of suggests that someone is cheating, and the only person who may suffer is the person in habitation.   Is that about it?

I think you'll find there are many, many properties without habitation certificates but still have mains water and electric on. The Orihuela Costa town hall, for example, were particularly poor at this and hundreds of properties were never issued one. In El Galan (taking in various urbs) properties went years and years without getting one and I think that some still don't have them after at least 15 years. One urb there actually had to have private electric meters installed and charged each house separately then went and paid the bill to Iberdrola each month.

Another urb had proper meters but no habitation certificates yet properties were being bought and sold on a regular basis. I know my neighbour who used to have a flat in Blue Hills (part of El Galan) who didn't even have deeds for 8 years because the builder went bust after taking out mortgages on the land to build other urbs (which also went tits up after the 2008 banking crisis) yet finally managed to get deeds and sold up with no habitation certificate. The notary simply retained a couple of hundred euro from the price to pay for the certificate if it ever became available.

Spanish people who buy and sell don't even seem concerned about this habitation certificate. 

I know it's said that you can't get mains electric and water unless you have this certificate but I can assure that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of properties in just the Orihuela Costa/El Galan/San Miguel zone which have utility contracts but no habitation certificates. 

One particular area in those mentioned had planning permission for 80 houses and the builder put up 150 (or so) in 2002 which have been declared illegal yet they are still there, have mains utilities, are being bought and sold on a regular basis yet without a habitation certificate. Even have roads maintained by the council, new roundabouts installed etc.

Go figure.

I figure the conveyancing system leaves purchasers vulnerable to abuse by corrupt and unregulated elements willing to exploit loopholes, which should be eradicated at source, by making provision of legal licences and title registration etc mandatory at point of purchase via regulated notarial due diligence. 

But then that leaves thousands already affected who should be adequately compensated where applicable and/ or provided with licences via a rational reassessment process, instead of subjecting them to the most uncivilised and unwarranted system of evictions and reposessions.

In this day and age, innocents should never be made to pay the price for an unregulated and flawed system open to such abuse and lack of regulation.

This message was last edited by ads on 01/12/2017.

My three house's have no Habitation Certificates, the one I sold prior to these didn't have one, had all the services, got all the bills for services, sold that one without one problem at all, even had a very large garage joined on the house that wasn't on the deeds, fact is I never even knew you had to have one until it started to get mentioned on here that you couldn't buy or sell without one, which seemed strange because I had been doing such.

I asked my solicitor about this, and why wasn't I told about this before hand, she said they were not issued when yours were built, not much I could do about that really, I don't buy 'Unseen' properties or 'New Builds' that never get built, so perhaps these houses need them for sure and this is when, or where the problems arise from.

This energy thingy is another waste of time, money and paperwork, does any body with half a brain think houses in Spain are energy efficient.

Baz.   Housing regulations are not retrospective so any housing built before a required certificate is put in place will not need one, that’s true (unless regulations tell you that you must get one, like the energy thingy etc).

But if you buy or rent a property after the date a certificate comes into force and you don’t get one, who’s fault is that?

If you don’t have a habitation certificate, it sounds pretty important to have one to me?

There are always things that people can say, oh thousands don’t get one, but when any of those come across an issue or have a fall out, you can bet your bottom euro that it will be thrown at you!    The solicitors in a conveyance should be sued for not ensuring it’s in place, but by the time you get the justice you would probably be homeless for 10 years!

probably best to write and demand one by a certain date, and send it registered post, and a copy to your solicitor, and state that you are complying with the law and put them on notice that failure to issue one puts them in breach.  I would deffo consider doing that to cover my backside etc.

The energy thingy in Spain, it’s born out of a world wide Kyoto agreement to improve the energy efficiency of housing.   If any improvements can be made they will be listed in the report issued, if there are no improvements that can be made, they could well be a waste of time.   But then again if you don’t get one, you never know eh.

In this case it appears the innocent who had every right to challenge the fact that they had not been informed of touristic status opened up a can of worms that has exposed the vulnerabilities and loopholes in the conveyancing system, the failure to adequately resource the justice system via timely enforcement,  and the unregulated Banks who fail to recognise their ultimate legal obligations to adhere to law intended to protect from the outset.

When I sold the house I mentioned with the garage I never told the buyers I never had one, they never asked, never told them I had inquired about them, not one person asked, I did tell them that the garage was not on the deeds, and I was asked if I wanted it to be put on the deeds,  if so it meant an architect doing this work, I said yes if it might hold up the sale, the buyers were told this and they were not bothered, so I didn't do anything about it, the house sold with not one problem and everything was done within a matter of a couple of weeks, I never even met the buyers until 7/8 months later when we visited friends next door, they never mentioned it.

So basically if you're selling your house without one, do you go to the trouble of getting one, I have no idea how you would, do you run the risk of losing a sale by not having one, do you inform the buyers, is it the buyers job to find out about these things, lets face it if your house sale goes through without a hitch do you care about them.

All you are doing is sadly perpetuating a system with loopholes open to corruption abuse and malpractice which when challenged ( as in the case of the couple compromised so unfairly) leaves innocents in an incredibly vulnerable position as things currently stand.

Turning backs on a flawed system that leaves purchasers at  continuing risk in this way is not only heartless and immoral it challenges the nature of civilised structure of rules in place to protect I'm afraid..

Baz.   Just speaking from the point of view of a regulated system.  

When you sell a property it’s done through a solicitor and conveyance.   It’s the duty of that legal agent to check all documents and permissions are in place, and they should do that during the sale procedure and not allow any delays that are avoidable by making legal demands or putting in place insurance against events to protect you (indemnity etc). 

Anything you have said to the prospective buyer and they have said to you will just be hearsay and if any issues drop up in future, the owner will be liable for any 'fall out' If they haven’t taken the correct precautions or used the proper people.  

Its then up to them if they come back and sue the seller for any breach, which is exactly what a lawyer would love, plenty of money, lots of time and exactly what a seller and purchaser would hate, plenty of heartache and loss of large sums of money and potential homelessness.

So I would write to the authorities and make sure the property I own is fully covered in regulations.   As the saying goes cover yourself in the papers.

Interestingly, this is from a Spanish solicitors site:

The certificate of habitation is a document which is required to sell properties when they are new building. From 2008 (when a new law started), builders they cannot sell their new properties without the presentation at the notary office of this document. So, it is compulsory to have the CH for selling new properties.

But in resales, the notary does not require the CH to authorize the selling. It means that buyers and vendors they can sign their deeds without the presentation of this document.

So does this mean that properties built before 2008 do not need a habitation certificate? Would explain how my neighbour sold his flat without one.

However, the same site goes on to say that if you want to change the utilities to your name the company can ask for the CH in order to this. It then mentions that, in some areas, the utility companies will change the contract without the CH.

To confirm if the CH is needed or not in a sale must be studied case by case, individually. It is not the same not to have the CH in Crevillente, or Catral, than not to have it Hondon Valley, or Albatera.

Confused? You will be on the next episode of ............................Spanish Property Purchase

Ha....nice one maridav.    

That clears it up then.  

Habitation license is by nature and concept obligatory for the habitation of the property.

It was in 2011 , when Land Act started to mention specific obligations of Notaries and Registrars in regards to checking on Urban legalities. Then in 2013,  these obligations were made much more precise and clear:  It is not till 2013  that Law makes obligatory for Notaries and Registrars. ( See related link below)

https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/11873/Legal-tip-1075-Registrars-Notaries-and-Planning-regulations.aspx 

What is not legal in first transmission, cannot be legal in second one, despite being registered. Actually the second occupation license is compulsory is some regions for transmissions once 10 years have passed.

Notaries and Registrars do not play an active role in verifying the urban legality of the house so an specialised lawyer is necessary. 

There are legalisation proceedings once 4 years have passed since end of work and Administration has no started any sanctioning proceeding.

Every situation is different ( as very frequently in Law) and deems an specific appraisal

Sorry Ads, but all you're doing is asking questions time and time again that practically have no reasons or answers, honestly do you believe that as I didn't have this HC in place and I did bother to take it further with Spain's legal system it would get anywhere other then perhaps hold up, in my case that house sale, if you had read my post you would have noticed I did say my solicitor said these were not issued when I bought said house, so that kinda stopped that dead in the tracks.

I also don't see how you can say... **** leaves innocents in an incredibly vulnerable position as things currently stand.**** who's innocent, everyone has the same chance to double check everything with what ever you buy.

I don't consider I have done anything immoral at all, I used the Spanish legal system as it is now, if thats no good then thats Spain's problem not mine, if you think with all your words and questions to who ever you might change it, then...Good luck with that.

Of course when you come to trade a car in for another one, and this car has continually let you down in more ways then one you do tell the buying dealer thats it's nothing but trouble, and that the price you are offering me is far to much for this pile of...S.....

Habitation license is by nature and concept obligatory for the habitation of the property.

Maria, before I try to understand the concepts you speak of, can you clarify if the above information applies to all properties (domestic) bought and sold in Spain?    In other words if you buy a house to live in it must have a habitation license.   

Of course, from the administrative point of view. You can be fined if you inhabit a house with no habitation license.

https://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/licence-first-occupation.aspx