english or spanish licence

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20 May 2017 00:59 by nicbax Star rating in Fuengirola. 189 posts Send private message

Hi, A friend owns an apt here. He and his Wife visit between 10 and 15 weeks a year. He has an english driving licence which is not due to expire for many years. However his car is now here permanently and which is going onto spanish plates. My question is whether he can legally drive his spanish reg car here on his english driving licence. thanks





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20 May 2017 06:56 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

Simple answer:  Yes one can drive in the circumstances you describe. 

In fact unless one is resident in Spain, just as in UK, one cannot have a Spanish DL





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20 May 2017 10:54 by BREXIT Star rating. 41 posts Send private message

What if you are a so called ‘’resident’’ if there is such a thing, other than having a A4 bit of green paper. No doubt the subject has come up 100’s of times on EOS. What's the latest?



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20 May 2017 11:39 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2001 posts Send private message

Yes all licences in the UK have the EU star ring present in the top corner, so it will be part of the negotiations to follow I reckon?  

Its valid around the EU, but I think the old licences pre EU were also valid weren't they?   



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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20 May 2017 12:15 by BREXIT Star rating. 41 posts Send private message

Thank you Brian.

I do like living in Spain because it seems so laid back. Parking on zebra crossings, opening and closing as they want, traffic wardens with guns, ink well admin system, scammers from politicians to lucky lucky men at the beach.

But the thing that I find difficult is the vagueness of things. If you ask 10 people a question you get 10 different answers. EU driving licence being one and the silly bit of A4 green paper being another. Spain is part of EU and you have EU passport and EU driving licence.





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20 May 2017 12:40 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1112 posts Send private message

You don't have an EU passport nor do you have an EU driving licence. You have a UK passport (EU model) and a GB driving licence (EU model). 

If your driving licence runs out whilst you are resident in Spain (and the photocard is only valid 10 years) then you can't renew it. Nor can you apply for a Spanish one if it has run out. 

However, the original question was about getting a Spanish licence if non-resident in Spain. You can't.

I agree, ask 10 people a question and you get 10 different answers. That's why it's always good to go to the official explanation.

DGT guidelines on UK driving licence

 





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20 May 2017 13:30 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2001 posts Send private message

The original question was

My question is whether he can legally drive his spanish reg car here on his english driving licence. thanks

I thought we answered that one OK?

Were you answering the other information that John or brexit put in there perhaps?

The paper license section is scrapped now in the uk brexit.   Where I live the traffic wardens are pretty good, they deffo dont have guns!

Maybe your getting mixed up with London!   Awful place mate.

 


This message was last edited by briando55 on 20/05/2017.


This message was last edited by briando55 on 20/05/2017.

_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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20 May 2017 13:53 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Brian

Wells aid the original question was answered

Just to add though a close contact of mine who grew up in spain took his driving test in spain and passed at 18

Just for the hell of it he went to uk for a short period and took the uk driving test and passed.

He now has both spanish and uk licence (address on uk licence is a family members address ) never had any problems 

. Spoke to dvla andc trafiCo in  spain to check he was doing nothing wrong and no problems

Another friend has 3 licences uk swiss and Spanish (and an expierd californian licence) won't go into details but like most things everything is not as black and white as some say 

 



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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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20 May 2017 14:56 by nicbax Star rating in Fuengirola. 189 posts Send private message

Hi, Thanks you all for your answers; most helpful.





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03 Jun 2017 12:39 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Tadd, you say you know of someone who has " both spanish and uk licence (address on uk licence is a family members address ) never had any problems " Well he never had problems as no official has worked out what he has done.......yet.  EU directive says you must hold a licence in the country of residence so attaining a UK licence using a family members address means the licence is not actually legal, but he will get away with it till someone stops him and somehow finds out what he has done.

As for Mariedav's comment," ask 10 people a question and you get 10 different answers. That's why it's always good to go to the official explanation." The article (not an official explanation) quoted in the link actually states within it,"The directive also details procedure in the case of violations in the event of a driver not renewing a licence in the country of residence."

As you cannot reside principally in two countries at the same time by EU definition there is no way legally you can possess two EU model driving licences (or renew both), or any other legal document defined by residence for that matter.





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03 Jun 2017 13:12 by Uknowwhatimeanharry Star rating in Ask Harry. 22 posts Send private message

Uknowwhatimeanharry´s avatar

You can be ‘’Jack the Lad’’ and have as many licences you want, from any source. But when you have an accident and someone is killed I would not rely on your insurance company too much, they will see it black and white for sure, and any excuse will do for them.

‘’Spoke to dvla andc trafiCo in  spain to check he was doing nothing wrong and no problems’’ . Got that in writing has he?.  It would be a brave person to rely on that statement if it went to court.



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03 Jun 2017 16:12 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Uknowwhatimeanharry

Where does it say that you can't drive a foreign registerd car as a resident of another country?

This is a myth invented by forums borne out the fact that a resident of a country cannot register a foreign car at their home address

Other scenarios are coach driver, HGV drivers, van drivers etc who live in UK have a UK DL and often they go to another country to drive a vehicle back to the UK 

As long as the car is legal and you have a valid driving licence there is no issue as I have said previously

Having 2 driving licences is a probelm and the EU is illegal in some EU countries I think the DVAL are looking into it

There is plenty of info on this online if you do a search

e.g.

http://www.nickfreemansolicitors.co.uk/new-laws-set-penalise-dual-driving-licence-holders/

 

 



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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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03 Jun 2017 18:19 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Tadd, your post seems a little random in its content, but the part where you say, "Having 2 driving licences is a probelm and the EU is illegal in some EU countries I think the DVAL are looking into it" is almost correct in that it is illegal to hold any licence other than one issued in the country you are RESIDENT in. This means having multiple licences from more than one EU country is an offence in ANY EU country.





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03 Jun 2017 18:38 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Robert 

Sorry but that is not true and I have friends and family who have these as mentioned earlier

Also I have colleagues who have been on long term secondment from work where they have had to take driving tests in the country they are working giving them 2 driving licences and some still valid

Please show me where this illegal in every country

RoI is one to start with where it is illegal as far as I can see

Have the UK DVLA actually done this now I am not sure 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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03 Jun 2017 19:58 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Tadd, I am sorry to tell you it is true, holding more than one EU licence is an offence under EU directive, and the UK has taken this into UK law from 26 March 2015. Please read the two attached web pages, one of which is a UK government consultation report. Note item 8, titled "next steps".

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/449019/Third_Driving_Licence_Directive_-_One_Person_One_Licence_Consultation_Report_February_2015.pdf

also,

http://www.nickfreemansolicitors.co.uk/new-laws-set-penalise-dual-driving-licence-holders/

Both links mention that more than one licence is illegal, and one is the official UK government site, so i would think that it is true and legal. Maybe you should inform your friends and families of their illegal activities, just so they know the potential for being charged with an offence?

P.S, would your comment, "Also I have colleagues who have been on long term secondment from work where they have had to take driving tests in the country they are working giving them 2 driving licences and some still valid" Would this relate to getting licences in countries from outside the EU? if so that would be legal as it does not involve holding two EU licences.

 


This message was last edited by robertt8696 on 03/06/2017.



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03 Jun 2017 22:57 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Robert

That is not what both sites state specifically 

Nick freeman states it is happening bit nothing on dvla

The eu site is not definitive or clear 

It may be the intention as in different states in usa but not cleaar so not necessarily illegal in every eu state

Even nick freeman says the penalty is a fine  not disqualification or a motoring offence  bit like having an incorrect address on a uk licence

It is a gray area and not clear nothing stopping anyone taking driving tests in any country in the eu and in some cases mandatory in some countries like usa but you still have a uk licence plus a uk dl

Yes taking a test in usa does not invoke your eu licence same in some eu countries

Not as black and white as you think

 

 


This message was last edited by Tadd1966 on 03/06/2017.

_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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04 Jun 2017 08:03 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

Having looked at the web pages shown; 

The Consultation Report, https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/449019/Third_Driving_Licence_Directive_-_One_Person_One_Licence_Consultation_Report_February_2015.pdf  In 2013 DVLA said it would be necessary to change the UK law to agree with an EU Directive.  So it would apear at that date that was not UK law. If so, at that date one could have have an EU DL and a UK one. 

http://www.nickfreemansolicitors.co.uk/new-laws-set-penalise-dual-driving-licence-holders/    I see  DVLA proposed that the EU Directive would become UK law as from 26th March 2015, but I cannot find any reference which shows that happened.

However, in 2013 the UK law already said one cannot apply for a UK DL if you already have a UK DL.

It would appear that a holder of a UK DL can hold other DLs issued outside EU.

 

I look forward to reading other opinions

.


This message was last edited by johnzx on 04/06/2017.



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04 Jun 2017 12:02 by robertt8696 Star rating in Midlands, UK. 479 posts Send private message

Maybe all you doubters who think it is a "grey area" or perfectly legal to hold two or more EU driving licences should read things more carefully. The following link makes it perfectly clear,

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving-licence/get-driving-licence/index_en.htm

One of the first things it states is, "To get an EU driving licence you must: be normally resident in that EU country"

As there are provisions that define "normally resident" for EU residency which effectively means you can only be registered for legal purposes in one country at a time, i dont see how it is LEGALLY possible to posess more than one EU licence authorisation.

The problem seems to come from people who do not understand or verify EU regulations, which admittedly are vast, and so they think they have a free pass to do things like hold two driving licences as its a "grey area" just because they cannot find relevent information that enforces a situation. It is one of the reasons the UK population has voted to leave the EU as there is too much red tape within the EU when doing anything official.

The bottom line is without specific licencing laws, general EU regulations prevent the lawful holding of more than one EU licence .





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04 Jun 2017 12:24 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

Robert.  Whilst I see your general position,  I believe a Directive must be included in domestic law before it becomes an offence not to comply with it.

Just for clarity, what is the UK law which one would be breaking ?   As I said I have searched the internet but was unable to find anything after the proposed intention of DVLA to have the law changed.   For example:  A person driving without a DL would be brought before a court for an offence contrary to section 87(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988

AND    Just a 'what if':     What if a person legally held the two or more DLs, having maybe passedthe driving  test in each country before the Directive was issued ?

 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 04/06/2017.



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04 Jun 2017 12:30 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

robert

It does not state you can't hold 2 DL's

Yes you have to be resident in a country to take the driving test in that country

However, If you reside in UK hold a UK DL and then move to Spain (or most other countries) and become resident there is nothing stopping you taking a Spanish driving test in Spain if you wish to, and having 2 DL's

 

 

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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