english or spanish licence

"Yes you have to be resident in a country to take the driving test in that country

However, If you reside in UK hold a UK DL and then move to Spain (or most other countries) and become resident there is nothing stopping you taking a Spanish driving test in Spain if you wish to, and having 2 DL's"

So, Tadd, yes you must be resident in a country to take that countries driving test, but you then state that there is nothing stopping you taking a driving test in Spain when resident in the UK. So how can you take a test in Spain when you are still resident in the UK? You actually contradict your statement.

Even if you did this and attained two driving licences (possible but not legal) EU rules state that you should hold a EU authorised licence IN THE COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE. As residence is defined by being in that principality for more than 185 days you physically CANNOT reside in two countries. EU directives go on to state that if your country of residence changes you must EXCHANGE your current licence for one issued in the country you have become resident in. Note it says EXCHANGE not attain a second licence.

These are the same regulations that define residence for tax and other residential reasons preventing duplication of your legal particulars by defining your country of residence within the EU by period of time in the principal country. Once your country of residence is defined that is the country you should hold your driving licence in which means that any other licence in any other country, held knowingly or innocently is invalid and therefore illegal. The only reason a directive has been generated by the EU is because there are people who believe that they can circumvent the law by obtaining a second licence as they do not consider they will get caught, due to it being a "grey area" which it is not.

robert

I did not say that

however if you had an address in both countries what is stopping you taking a driving test in that country

in Spain when taking your test you provide an address but not a certificate of residence (same in UK) again from experience of people taking their tests and filling out the application forms

The point is simple there is NOTHING stopping anyone getting 2 DL's in countries and when you become a resident in some countreis (oereven on along term secondment) it is mandatory to take you driving test (eg USA) tio drive a vehicle

The EU have done us all a favour in that we do not have to take a test when residing in Spain (and rest of EU) and  you can exchange your UK DL - this might chnage post Brexit who knows?

You can beleive wat you want and post all you want but you have no facts to back this up and as I know peopel who have more than 1 EU DL, seen them physically and they have checked with the authoritiets I know what I beleive to be correct

Robert  EU directives go on to state that if your country of residence changes you must EXCHANGE your current licence for one issued in the country you have become resident in.

I think you will find that is MAY  EXCHANGE NOT MUST

Robert residence is defined by being in that principality for more than 185

If one moves to Spain then they must register on the EU Citizen’s Register immediately, and are then legally resident. In that case the 183 days rule is superseded

Robert, You do not say what offence against UK law  such a person commits.  I cannot find any such law.

Tadd you are mixing up fact with what you see as the truth, as much as people who perpetuate the offence. You see this as a unregulated "grey" area of the law, and that it is perfectly legal , which it is not. This is why the EU has created directives in an attempt to clarify the law and regulations, but all it has done is muddy the law still furtherYou state, "however if you had an address in both countries what is stopping you taking a driving test in that country.

in Spain when taking your test you provide an address but not a certificate of residence (same in UK) again from experience of people taking their tests and filling out the application forms"

This is totally true, i agree, but the EU states that you should register your particulars IN THE COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE. You cannot be resident in two countries at the same time within the EU, and therefore you should EXCHANGE your licence for a licence in the current country of residence, not take a second test, which is perfectly possible , but not legal. So, yes, you can get two EU licnces but the one issued in the country of residence would be the valid one. It is perfectly possible, but not legal by EU definition.

You try to reinforce this by saying, "The point is simple there is NOTHING stopping anyone getting 2 DL's in countries and when you become a resident in some countreis (or even on a long term secondment) it is mandatory to take you driving test (eg USA) tio drive a vehicle"

This statement is not actually true either, as you can visit the USA as a holidaymaker and still drive a vehicle on a non USA licence. Like the EU it is not mandatory to change your licence until you become resident , which like the EU is defined as 185 days. Unlike the EU there is no agreement to exchange your licence as there is within the EU, so yes, you have to then take a USA driving test to carry on driving in the USA. It is exactly the same for residents of the USA who reside in the UK for more than six (185 days) months.

The EU gives you the possibility of EXCHANGING your EU licence for another member states licence due to licence harmonisation, and saves you from having to take another test. If you had a accident and the authorities went through your licence particulars and it was found you were not resident in the country the licence was issued in i think you may have some very awkward questions to answer with the authorities.

As for your knee jerk remark that "you know what you believe to be correct" i would agree that yes you are right, it is perfectly possible to hold more than one licence at a time, but it doesnt mean there is any legality to your claim.

Robert:

I would be pleased if you addressed, briefly,  the questions in my posts- 

Thanks

Johnzx, i think it says MAY, as if you move to another country in the EU the relevant directive states that if you dont renew your licence after two years, you MAY be required to exchange your driving licence. I would think that this is a polite way of saying you will be asked to hand in your licence for renewal. If you dont i would expect you would be revoked from driving entitlement, I know someone who had this happen after not sending the DVLA his licence voluntarily (may) after a speeding fine to have the penalty points added.

There is an obligatory exchange requirement of two years from the point of first registration in the case of lifetime issue licences that dont hold an expiry date, as some member states issue. Before two years you MAY exchange your licence voluntarily.

As for what offence you are commiting in the UK, it would be driving a class of vehicle you dont have valid authorisation to drive and possibly fraud, if you used the non resident copy you held. So if you moved to Spain and took a test, when legally resident , that licence would be the valid licence. If you then got stopped in the UK and produced the UK copy you would be driving without legal authorisation as the licence would be superseded by the Spanish copy, just as if you legally exchanged it and only held the Spanish entitlement.

The Spanish licence could be proven to have been obtained after the UK licence and therefore would be the legal copy. If the UK licence was then produced it would no longer have any legal authorityas it was issued previously. Many, especially truck drivers used to do this to keep a "clean" copy of a licence, but the DVLA dont check the issue date, they check the security code from when it was issued, which gives all the facts to the DVLA held on record. If you are caught doing this it is fraud, as it is falsification of documents, obtained by misrepresentation. This was usually done by telling the DVLA they had lost the original copy, much the same as taking a second test in a member state rather than exchanging the licence.

Lastly these webpages from europa.eu should be read as it makes it quite clear in the pages the requirements for holding a EU licence, particularly where it says "No person may hold more than one driving licence" it could not be any clearer. Read item 4 in,

 http://eurlex.europa.eu/legalcontent/EN/TXT/qid=1430377687650&uri=CELEX:32006L0126

Also this page relating to driving licence renewal,

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving-licence/driving-licence-renewal-exchange/index_en.htm

This page under the heading, Exchange, clearly states that you " can have only one EU driving licence" if you read all this, which is EU issue it could not be any clearer.

robert

you make good  points but it is possible to have 2 licences I have seen them with my own eyes checked with police in UK & Spain, checked with insurance companies in UK & Spain (declaring named drivers on insurances and declaring the more than 2 EU licence) and checked with DVLA and traffico about the valdidty of the ones I have seen no problems at all

and remember not all EU states have signed up to the directive on DL's especaily UK & Denmark although some enforcement in relation to sharing details of drivers who commit offences and skipping teh country will be after May 2017.

It si possibel as I have seen it with my own eyes

Same as dual citizenship, dual residency, dual passports etc etc amnh diffenring rules by counrty, websites and forums

We are going around in circles so suggest we agree to disagree and if nay of my friends get prosecuted for haiovning more tha  1 EU DL  I wil let you know but so far all is good an

Typical last word tadd. Black is white if you say so. Will use you as defence expert witness and probably receive 5 years extra sentence.

 This thread is currently locked due to know all who knows nothing.

Threadlocked or threadbare?

Threadlocked, Tadd claims we are going round in circles, well i disagree. Tadd maybe doing this, but everything i have posted shows it is not possible to LEGALLY possess two or more EU licences at the same time. Everytime i find and clarify something to substantiate what i relay, Tadd claims that he knows better, but has yet to produce any substantial evidence to prove his claims. 

I do agree that it is possible to posess two or more EU licences, but everything i have produced shows that almost any court or governing body would only consider the last issued licence, and also the one from the country of residence as being the only valid legal copy of a driving authorisation. Producing an earlier copy if found out could have some very negative results for the holder. Also, Tadd, your friends would most likely not get legal action for producing a second licence, they would more likely be prosecuted for using a false instrument, that is the invalid licence.

All this information takes me in a straight line, my information has not wandered off path, or gone round in circles Tadd.

I hope the following helps without offending.

An EU Directive is a legislative act which imposes on member states an obligation to achieve the requirements or ambitions set out within the EU directive. The EU does stipulate how each member state achieves this. Often a EU member state transpose this requirement into their own relevant national law. The EU do not stipulate how it is achieved as member countries have a range of differing legal systems, judicial arrangements and state powers along with a variety of responsible enforcement or administrating bodies within each state.  An EU regulation is applied in its entirety across the EU.

In 2015 the UK launched a consultation regarding this matter and the relevant UK legislation was amended during March 2015. Referred to as, STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS 2015 No. 719 ROAD TRAFFIC The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2015.

The law appears to be not silent on this, the key in this instance will be identifying any offence provided by the relevant national law; either in Spain or the UK pertaining to the where the offence was committed. For any UK offence the UK Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 would identify the contravention.

An explanation of the impact of the UK legislative amendment provided above, explains that - it prohibits a person from holding more than one Great Britain, Northern Ireland or Community driving licence. Any breach of this regulation is an offence under section 91 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. There is an exception made in the case of those who hold a document authorising them to drive a motor vehicle which was issued by a state before the date on which that state became a member State or the date on which that state became a party to the EEA agreement.

Extract UK Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988-

s 91. If a person acts in contravention of or fails to comply with—

(a) any regulations made by the Secretary of State under the Road Traffic Act 1988 other than regulations made under section 31, 45 or 132,

So if Scotty is correct, and i see no reason why not, possesion of multiple licences is illegal in the UK under the road traffic act. I have no reason to disbelieve this, unless anyone can supply factual information to the contrary that is accurate. Also it is a regulation of the EU that no one should attain a second licence, the individual should exchange the licence for the new country of residence.

So sorry Tadd, you seem to be taking a lot of flak for your claims, maybe its time you should substantiate some of them?

Robert

All I am saying us what I have seen

To be honest I think EOS is getting bad and the latest new poster is making me think twice

Seems like threadlocked is another aka of someone well known and another invalid email 

Tadd it is possible to see a lot of things in this world, and i have agreed with you that it is quite possible people have done it and got two EU licences. The problem arises when it comes to the legality of what they have done, and if they have complied with EU regulations (which they havent)

Additionally another thing comes to mind. If the person goes to the new country and obtains a provisional licence for their use, how embarresing would it be to go for the test and fail it? Especially as the person is probably an expat of mature years..... That then would ask the question how safe would that person be driving anywhere with or without ANY licence? It doesnt bear thinking about.

robert

I don't diagree with you but as I said it was all checked with the police and relevant authorities and there was no problem

yes how embarrasing if you were to fail etc.

Was a good discussion until the a**e decided to create yet another aka with an invalid email and attack again (wonder if he has sold his house he wil know what I mean) who spoiled a thread yet again

After the attack by threadlocked who is a stirrer and well known on EOS under many other names it may be time to back off from EOS and use other forums where idiots like threadlocked are less tolerated 

tadd,"I don't diagree with you but as I said it was all checked with the police and relevant authorities and there was no problem"

I had the same problem some years ago when i ran a tyre fitting workshop. Dealers near me were importing Japanese "Grey Import" cars. These cars had tyres marked "JIS" which stands for Japanese International Standard, and were fitted in Japan. The cars had been imported, checked by VOSA for UK use legality then sent for MOT before being sold in the UK. The thing is JIS tyres are not legal as they are not marked in accordance with EU markings and legislation. I had such a disagreement with one of the carsales places over this I contacted the local VOSA office. The person there told me that as "JIS tyres are manufactured to a standard comparable with a EU regulation tyre we dont have a problem with their use in the UK"

Unfortunately, the UK police dont hold the same view, their view being , "if the tyre is not marked in accordance with regulations it is illegal, and must not be used on a UK road as an offence will be commited"

So when you check with the police and relevent authorities, who is right? With the tyres the two "relevent authorities", the Police and VOSA were consulted and two opposing opinions were put forward. Who would you believe? Bear in mind you could be charged with an offence, even though you consulted a legal entity that should be able to supply the correct law enforcing information.

There is "no problem" until YOU the user is caught.

If you have a UK photo card licence and are resident in Spain, you only have to change it to a Spanish licence once it is due for renewal.

From DGT:

"Cuando se trate de un permiso de conducción no sujeto a un período de vigencia determinado, su titular deberá proceder a su renovación, una vez transcurridos dos años desde que establezca su residencia normal en España "

https://sede.dgt.gob.es/es/tramites-y-multas/permiso-de-conduccion/canje-de-permisos/union-europea.shtml

This roughly translates as:

"In the case of a driving license not subject to a certain period of validity, the holder must proceed to its renewal, within two years of establishing his normal residence in Spain"

As you know, UK photo cards have a validity of 10 years, so the 2 year rule doesn't apply...