How can I submit a 210 quarterly rental income form myself

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08 Apr 2017 09:03 by Nigie Star rating. 109 posts Send private message

I declare my rental income taxes quarterly, however, as my mortgage interest rate is so high, I offset pretty much all income against that and legitimately pay very little tax. However, I do have to pay an accountant over £500 a year for the privilage of submitting the 5 returns, which is crazy. 

Is it possible (like in the UK with the SA100 Self Assessment) form to submit the returns myself ?

Can anyone let me know, point me towards some documentation / information etc. 

Thank you.





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08 Apr 2017 09:50 by randolph Star rating. 167 posts Send private message

We use spanishtaxforms.com.

We email the info to them and they fill in the necessary forms. You can then submit them yourself or let them do it - all for £29.95.

 

 





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08 Apr 2017 11:38 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4437 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

I have never filed a 210 (being tax resident in Spain) so cannot attest to how easy or strightforward it is, but you can find the Modelo 210 form here and Instructions on how to file 210  here.

Hope this may help.



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08 Apr 2017 14:40 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5100 posts Send private message

Nigie.  As you are letting the property I am pretty sure 210’s do not apply.  They are for paying 'imputed' income tax,  on property  which is not providing any income or for the periods when it is not doing so..

 As you are deriving an income, you are obliged to pay income tax on the rent.  That is normally declared between 6th April and the end of June each year.  I do not know about quarterly payments

This may help  http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2015/12/08/non-resident-taxes-spain/

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 08/04/2017.

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08 Apr 2017 14:51 by randolph Star rating. 167 posts Send private message

We have to pay ours quartely as we are non-residents. 





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08 Apr 2017 15:01 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4437 posts Send private message

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John, read the article you linked!

Modelo 210 covers all non-resident income, imputed or real.



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08 Apr 2017 15:03 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5100 posts Send private message

Roberto  I have never filed a 210 (being tax resident in Spain) so cannot attest to how easy or strightforward it is,

 

I have been completing 210's for many years for my son and his wife on the 3 properties they own and I have helped friends to do so.  They are straightforward once you know how. Say about 10 minutes per return



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08 Apr 2017 15:37 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4437 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Then it seems strange to me, John, that you think 210 only applies to imputed income. I've never filed one for myself or anyone else, but the instructions (from Hacienda) are quite clear, in that modelo 210 is to be used for all taxable income of non-residents.

You said: "you are obliged to pay income tax on the rent.  That is normally declared between 6th April and the end of June each year.  I do not know about quarterly payments"

You are confusing the obligations of fiscal residents and non-residents. I also have not heard of any requirement for non-residents to file quarterly, however. From the (Hacienda) link I provided earlier:

"Income from real estate located in Spain: The tax return must be filed within the calendar year following the date of accrual (31 December of each year)"



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08 Apr 2017 15:58 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5100 posts Send private message

Roberto.Yes I was wrong but I have only ever dealt with 210's on property which is not let.

 

Nigie you might find these helpful :

http://www2.agenciatributaria.gob.es/static_files/common/internet/dep/aplicaciones/ov/ie62100b.html?idi=en

http://www.agenciatributaria.es/static_files/AEAT/NoIx/Modelos_periodos_anteriores/mod210_mi_MI.pdf

I see  the 210 allows for quarterly payments in the 'accrual' section, that is annual or 1st, 2nd 3rd 4th quarter. I guess the rest is the same so should be straightforward.

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 08/04/2017.

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08 Apr 2017 16:29 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Sorry guys, I missed an answer maybe.

Someone asked if there was a 'self assessment' method of tax returns in Spain, but I didnt see an answer.

Is there such a system?



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08 Apr 2017 16:50 by randolph Star rating. 167 posts Send private message

There are umpteen references to non residents paying tax quarterly - here is an example

https://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/declaring-the-tax-on-your-spanish-holiday-rental

 

If you are a non-resident you will need to declare the earnings using the form 210 (modelo 210) that you present to the tax office (Hacienda). You can do this after every rental, or you can do it quarterly, which is by far the easiest way. You should also be aware that even if there remain periods of the year that you don’t rent your property out, you should still be declaring your non-residents tax on this period. If you don’t, when you go to sell, you will be charged for the number of undeclared years, so it’s better to pay upfront. 





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08 Apr 2017 17:08 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4437 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Brian, this whole thread appears to be about self assessment. If you mean, is there a way to submit your 210 without using a gestor, then the answer is in my first post on the thread, and the links I provided



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08 Apr 2017 17:10 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5100 posts Send private message

Brian   Someone asked if there was a 'self-assessment' method of tax returns in Spain, but I didn’t see an answer.

If you mean,  can one make the declaration without using a ‘professional,’   then his was the answer:  

" I have been completing 210's for many years for my son and his wife on the 3 properties they own and I have helped friends to do so.  They are straightforward once you know how. Say about 10 minutes per return"

I have also made my annual tax declaration myself but it's a bit long winded so at 50 euros easier, usually, to use a gestor/laywer/accountant et al.

The 2 internet links I posted describe how the 210 declarations (self-assessments) are to be made.

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 08/04/2017.

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08 Apr 2017 17:21 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Ok thanks John 



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08 Apr 2017 21:26 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4437 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Again, my disclaimer - I have never filed a 210 personally, but...

Johnzx: "I see  the 210 allows for quarterly payments in the 'accrual' section" - yes, but we're talking here about rental income from property in Spain. In the instructions for filing 210, which I posted the (AEAT i.e. official, rather than "umpteen non-official sources) link for earlier it clearly states on Page 17 under "Filing deadline":

"b) Income from real estate located in Spain: The tax return must be filed within the calendar year following the date of accrual (31 December of each year)."

"Other" income accrued (such as perhaps dividends) can be declared quarterly, but it still seems to me that rental income only needs to be declared annually.

I could be wrong cheeky

 

 



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"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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08 Apr 2017 23:32 by randolph Star rating. 167 posts Send private message

Roberto,

 I was trying to show that  non-residents  are required to  pay tax on rental income quartely .

I understand that you may consider my sources to be unofficial - but, in this case, they  are correct. The 'official' sources are usually so vague or complicated mere mortals like myself cannot make head nor tail of them.

 I do not want to go to the tax office, armed with 'official' Spanish documents to explain  the tax system to the Spanish officials.

I pay my tax, I pay it quarterly, I pay it simply, correctly and cheaply.  

 





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09 Apr 2017 00:15 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4437 posts Send private message

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And I was only trying to explain that you are not required to file on a quarterly basis. Frankly, I doubt if Hacienda care if you do it on a daily basis, so long as you are paying. But you are only required to do so annually.

But I could be wrong, and tbh don't give a toss one way or the other. I answered the OP a long time ago, with links to the info he needed, so the rest is just academic.



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"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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09 Apr 2017 09:21 by randolph Star rating. 167 posts Send private message

But you ARE required to pay it quarterly if you are a non-resident! I  think it is important to distinguish between non residents and residents. The OP did not say. (sorry about the colour - can't seem to change it)

The below quote is from spanishtaxforms.com - paying taxes is what they do.

What taxes do I have to pay?

You pay non-residents' tax if you do not receive any income from your property. This is paid in the following year so, for instance, non-residents' tax for 2016 is payable this year (2017). You pay income tax on net rental income (i.e. income after expenses). This is paid immediately at the end of any quarterly period so, for instance, income tax due for April - June 2016 must be paid by 20 July 2016 and so on. If you pay income tax for any period, this reduces your non-residents' tax in the following year - i.e. you only pay one tax, income tax or non-residents' tax, for any period. [top]

 


This message was last edited by randolph on 09/04/2017.


This message was last edited by randolph on 09/04/2017.



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09 Apr 2017 10:58 by Nigie Star rating. 109 posts Send private message

Thank everyone for the replies. I am the original poster of this thread.

I live in the UK so am therefore a not resident.

I rent my Spanish property and currently pay over £500 a year accountancy fees to submit (for the most part) zero tax returns on a quarterly basis (210) , plus the Non Res (210) also.

I understand exactly which taxes to pay and when, and I have a rental licence granted. (Andalucia).

I was wondering what options are there to file the 210 quarterly to the Spanish tax autrorities yourself and thus save money. 

I can see below some good options which I will look into and probably re-post some more questions.

Thanks

Nigel

 





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09 Apr 2017 10:59 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4437 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Sorry Randolph, I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm only trying my best to help others by providing the facts from official sources. The OP did distinguish between residents and non-residents, by asking about modelo 210, which is only for use by non-residents. I'm also not trying to be pedantic, but if you read my last post, I did say "you are not required to file on a quarterly basis." I fully accept that you can, if you wish, declare your rental income quarterly, but others may prefer to do so annually, and that is acceptable by Hacienda. It's there on their own website for anyone who wants to read it (in English too). 

You state with utter confidence that your are required to pay quarterly, because spanishtaxforms.com say so. Tax forms is what they do - but so do Hacienda and I think their website trumps an English site with no accreditation whatsoever. And another well known and well-respected) English site quoted earlier in this thread says: 

"2. Renting out property

Dates: collected annually or quarterly.
Tax form: 210."

So there you have it. Could it be that spanishtaxforms want you to file quarterly, because they make more money that way? At 30 quid a shot, they charge considerably more than my gestor does for filing my annual resident's tax declaration. Just a thought....



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"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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