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We have just been landed with a bill for 120 euro by our solicitor in Spain who dealt with our house purchase last year and its for completing Spainish Tax Return for 2012 as non residents .
Does anyone know if this is an acceptable charge for this service and whats involved as it seems over the top to me.
Thanks in advance
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Fomer member revisiting r.
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I am sure that some will say that you can do it yourself for Free.
Others will charge you for the pleasure of doing it for you.
My solicitor has been handeling my tax forms for the last 12 years.
For peace of mind I pay him approx the same as you.
Works for me
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JB
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For many years, I have done the return for my son and daughter-in-law.
Apart from last year when it had to done on line and the Hacienda prog was crap not working well, it is usually a matter of 10 minutes work.
A local Gestor here charges 30 euros, but like all suppliers of goods or services, they can charge what they like.
A bit late for you now, but always ask before you say yes to agreeing to the supply of any services, banking transactions, taxi journeys, etc.
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I am sure if I am wrong I will be corrected........... If your property is in joint names eg: Husband and Wife/Partner you have to submit 2 Tax returns. 
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JB
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Yes, As El Alamillo says, each non-resident owner must submit a separate form 420 return for EACH property they have any ownership in. And a separate return for each.
My son has a share with his wife in one property; he also owns another apartment and a separate garage space. I do 4 returns for them
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I have always had my solicitor / accountant in Spain do my returns, everyone has to make a profit somehow, isn't it great when / if a problem crops up and you can say to the "Experts" you did it...you fix it !
Pretty sure mine is roughly about the same amount, 120€ (£103.00ish) could be more.... worth every cent. A friend of mine is a resident of Spain and his solicitor / accountant charges him about 100€ a (£86.00 ish) year to do his, he has two house's.
Whats involved? probably ticking boxes, but me personally i haven't a clue, that's why we pay what we pay...so we dont have to get involved.
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Baz................... if a problem crops up and you can say to the "Experts" you did it...you fix it !
Yes thats true, but remember that as you will normally sign your income tax return, you are responsible for the accuracy not your solicitor etc.
Previously I used to do my own resident’s tax Return, but for the past couple of years I have used a Gestor. She charges 50 euros for two Returns for me and my wife. So 120€ for one Return would seem to be ‘rather over the top.’
As for “ I have always had my solicitor / accountant in Spain do my returns, everyone has to make a profit somehow”,
When it is reasonable OK, but I had a friend who worked for a Spanish agent who sold properties and dealt with ‘the legalities’ for non-residents. One year he forgot to do the non-resident tax Returns until the last minute. My friend typed up just under 100 Returns in one day. The boss charged the equivalent to £80 for each, and was in about 1995.
Another Gestor I knew at that time used to charge non-residents for the very simple few minute return, twice what he charged residents for their full tax return.
‘Reasonable’ ??
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I pay my solicitor €90 mas IVA (€108.90 this year) for performing this service
She is a truly exceptional solicitor-has done some small services for me over the
years without charge-and I like to keep her sweet-probably the easiest fee she earns
each year, involving I would guess a few minutes on keyboard plus preparation of
invoice to me and despatch by registered post
Of course essentially you are paying a professional fee for acceptance of
professional responsibility in the matter and I would consider a charge €100-120
to be perfectly reasonable
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It has just occurred to me.
Several years ago I consulted an accountant. He spent quite a lot of time over several visits advising me, but as he said he had not done any work for me, there was no charge.
I decided that year to use him for my son’s Non Resident Return and my tax return as a way of compensating him for the time spent advising me. He effectively refused to do my return telling me to go to my bank as they would do the residents tax return for free.
Caja Sur, was my bank and for several years I used them to do the return which was always without any charge. The accountant did my son's Return and charged a 'heafty' 120€
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Nostradamus wrote;
" Of course essentially you are paying a professional fee for acceptance of professional responsibility in the matter and I would consider a charge €100-120 to be perfectly reasonable "
You aren't. They have no legal responsibility whatsoever. According to the Hacienda they work for you: The responsibility is always the declarers. If you have any problems you will be required to pay the fines, back taxes , etc; & will have to resort to a civil action against them, which will take years & can be negated if they are a limited company & declare themselves bankrupt !
The system is the same in Germany.
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Todos somos Lorca.
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guslopez
You have totally misread my comment
It was quite clear that I was referring to to professional responsibility to the person paying the fee which was the subject of discussion, in the thread-the accountability is to the client for any failure to perform .Accountability to Hacienda is clearly the responsibility of the tax-payer and this is well-established.I would be happy that in most cases the acceptance of the responsibility to the client would ensure that a qualified solicitor would carry out service efficiently, though obviously a wise person would check that service had been carried out
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Baz................... if a problem crops up and you can say to the "Experts" you did it...you fix it !
Yes thats true, but remember that as you will normally sign your income tax return, you are responsible for the accuracy not your solicitor etc.
Yes John exactly the same as in England, now this might be a surprise but in all my tax years and tax payments to Spain not once have i been asked to sign any tax forms, bearing in mind it might be different for me because i dont live in Spain full time.....yet.
As for England i pay good money to my accountant here so i dont get the grief and i do know many who do it themselves, apparently it's become better and easy, me not interested, i have had about 2 or 3 tax investigations and always my accountant goes, i never do, won every one of them...that's why i think it's better to pay for the knowledge of those who know.
Another thing i have learnt is when you find a good one keep to them, the tax man is more then likely to pick on someone who changes accountants a lot, maybe the same in Spain as well, from the horses mouth, my mate who was a fraud investigator for the Inland Revenue.
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google Spanish tax forms there is an english company who will prepare forms for you to take to bank for £25 for both of you.I have used them for several years great service.
Regards Paul
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Baz it would seem what you say that you are not tax resident in Spain. Thus you will not be making Residents Tax Returns. The 420 can be signed by another person. My son has owned a property here for 12 years and I have always signed his 420's
Sorry but I have been directing my replies to Tax residents, as that was the line it appeared to me that the posts were taking instead of following the title:-
Reply to: non Resident Tax returns completed by Solicitor
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It appears to me that this thread has been useful in establishing that the "going rate" for this service is in the region of €100-120 and there may well be No Residentes following this thread who are pondering the option of paying this amount rather than exercising other options. It might perhaps be useful if I summarised procedure in my case which I assume does not differ from the norm.
In March of each year, I instruct my solicitor to make relevant return, and supply copy of receipt of previous years IBI which she always requires(contains most recent statement of Valor Cadastral)(my property never let)
In May, she confirms return submitted and deducts her fee from my current account ,informs me that amount due indicated as IRNR will be deducted at years end and sends me copy of her invoice by registered post
At end of year tax due is deducted from my current account by Hacienda
If there is any break in this thread of events I will become aware of it immediately and contact her and the situation can be corrected
I have no contact with Hacienda at any stage and sign nothing at any stage
If I am away from Spain and Hacienda has some issue I assume that they will contact her and the issue can be addressed immediately
To my mind the service is worth fee involved, others of course may take a different view
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Nostradamus, from 25 years experience of completing non-resident tax forms, originally for myself, then for family and friends, I can assure that 100 -120 euros is considerably more expensive than necessary.
It is a very simple process.
I posted early that a friend, working for a Spanish agent, completed almost 100 forms in one day. At 110 euros each that’s around 11,000 euros for one day’s work by a typist.
As someone has said, in a post in one of the threads a service is mentioned which does it I believe for 25 euros. That is about right for a few minutes work.
If I am away from Spain and Hacienda has some issue I assume that they will contact her and the issue can be addressed immediately
It used to obligatory but is still an option, to appoint a representative for tax notifications. They do not need any legal qualifications. I represent my son.
You say you do not let your property. Thats really off thread as If you did, you would (should) be making an income tax return in addition to non-residents property owners tax.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 20/06/2013.
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john
Thanks for comments
You have missed the point of my "property not let" statement and made a factual statement which could cause alarm to many No Residentes!
A NO Residente who does not let his property pays IRNR on the basis of Valor Cadastral,and accordingly I when mentioned Valor Cadastral I added that my property was not let( and therefore assessed on basis of Valor Cadastral)
A No Residente who lets his property pays tax on actual rent passing on form 210
Your statement that a No Residente who receives rent for his property "should"(wise choice of word,john!) also make "an income tax return in addition to non-residents property tax"is not in accordance with the facts. A No Residente pays one tax on his property on the basis of either Valor Catastral or rent passing
This message was last edited by Nostradamus on 20/06/2013.
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QUOTE
http://www.advoco.es/advice/8-personal-tax/75-taxation-of-rental-properties-in-spain.html
One issue that can occur with non-resident rentals is that the property is only rented out for part of the year, maybe even only a few weeks in the summer. In this case the rent must be declared in the manner described above but the period during which there is no rental is also subject to a separate tax - the non resident tax that all holiday home owners who don't rent out their properties face
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john
Thanks for interesting reference.We are going off thread at this juncture, the OP having got a wide variety of responses to his original question, but there is not really a great difference between us, and I would like to set out position as I see it as my final contribution
1 I have examined agencia tributaria website and to me it confirms that a single tax is payable by No Residentes on their properties in Spain ,submitted on Modelo 210
2.Persons making return on basis of VC tick "tipo de renta02,if making return on basis of rent tick "tipo de renta 01"
3.There is provision for a fractional approach, on the basis of rent for part of year and VC for balance-however this does not constitute a separate tax, with all submissions made on modelo 210.I find it difficult to visualise a situation where this would be applied-I could easily visualise a situation where a No Residente is happy to pay tax on the basis of VC while deriving rent for his property which he does not declare
4.The reference quoted is to my mind not quite accurate in referring to a "separate tax"
5.I have read my last post closely and do not perceive any errors of fact in it-however, in deference to your last post I will add that there is a provision for a fractional/apportionment approach where a property is declared to be used for personal use for part of year and rent-producing for balance of year
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Nostradamus,
I am not sure how I got into this.
It is not a matter which concerns me personally in any way.
I was quoting a legal source and showed the web pàge in my post.
The point I wanted to make was that anything more than about 25 euros fee for completing the 420 is in m y opinion and experience way over the top.
But horses for courses.
Good luck.
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