Tenants fom Hell. What can be done legally

I have got drug growing tenants with a baby and young child in my house currently, they have been arrested by police and charged for growing cannabis, local papers said over E100k was taken away from my house. Now the local court is so busy it has given me a date of evicting them for September 2013, some 12 months after they were first arrested. they have no assets so will end up with retreiving no money back. To cap it all off I even have to pay there utility bills, if I cut them off they can prosecute me!! How ridiculus is the Spanish legal system? My lawyer in Spain says he is ashamed of the Spanish system but there is little more legally we can do.

Does anyone have any experience of similar circumstances and also is it worth pursuing the property management company that found the tenants in court and what about taking the local town hall to court for not being able to act sooner???

I look forward to reasonable responses

Hi Brummiedave

I'm very sorry for you, finding yourself in this dreadful situation.  I know a lot about the legal position in the UK and have written a book on tenants from hell, from the landlord's perspective (not yet published), so I understand what you're going through at this time.  In the UK, even with a tenant who knows how to work the system to the utmost, you can get them out in about 5-6 months maximum; despite it technically taking two months as you have to give them two months' notice, there are then the court appearances, the judge giving them time to leave, them not then leaving and then the bailiffs who usually have a waiting list of a month or so.  This idea that you have to wait a whole year just to get to court in Spain is a travesty of justice.  I heard that the Spanish Government were changing the law to enable fast evictions in an attempt to get more people to rent out their homes.  Does anyone on the Forum know what that was about?  Maybe they passed the law but if the courts have waiting times of a year or more, the law is irrelevant?  I know it doesn't help you, and I'm sorry, but what a shambles to have such a long waiting list.  TAKE ON MORE STAFF.  HEAR CASES MORE QUICKLY.  That's what I say.  As the plaintiff, you have to pay for the damn service anyway, so why can't they provide a prompt service?  I don't see why people should accept these waiting lists as somehow an act of God.

Anyway, back to you.  Look after yourself.  I hope someone else on the Forum knows more about anything you can do about this in the Spanish system.  In the meantime, remember the tenants are the bad guys and thank God you didn't come on this earth to cause the kind of hassle and distress that they do.  It will take a mammoth effort to not keep thinking and worrying about them, but maybe set aside a time each day when you allow yourself to, but at other times stop yourself and think, 'no, I'll worry at 5 o'clock.'  Maybe set aside another time every couple of days to do whatever you can to practically deal with it.  The emotional side will be more of an issue though, I suspect.  All the best with it. 

 Apologies for diverting the thread a tiny bit. I just was touched by eggcups last paragraph. Sadly it is too true that beyond legal and financial issues there is a world of mental and personal anguish that is often neglected or surpressed. My compliment to eggcup for his words of moral support.

Dave, my instict would be to check with another lawyer, a consultation should not break the bank. At the very least you have either reaffirmed your lawyers assesment of the situation, in that case you have done what you could, or hopefully gained a different line of pursuit, particular with regards to the property managementy firm and the town hall. 

Good luck and all the best!

Hi Dave

Sorry to hear about your situation. Awful and must be hell for you! BUT don't lose faith.

Your solicitor is correct in not much can be done legally and yes you can be prosecuted if you cut off utilities/become a nuisance  etc. So DON'T.

However, I do believe there is a "hidden rule" that you can have them out almost immediately following the legal process IF YOU  INTEND/NEED TO LIVE IN THE PROPERTY YOURSELF.

I don't know your personal cicumstances, but that is the route I would investigate/follow through on if I were you. HAVE THE NEED TO LIVE IN IT YOUSELF NO MATTER HOW YOU DO IT. This may disrupt family/work etc in the short term but will save you a fortune in the long run. 

Maybe someone with property/legal knowledge could clarify this rule further. I'm so sorry but I can't remember who I know who did it to ask them.

I hope you get it sorted and soon.

BEST WISHES

 

 Im sorry to hear of your situation, it is a total nightmare that your property rights are disregarded in the eyes of the law.

Your story is a prime example of why no one should let a property in Spain.. yet there have been those on these forums that advocate families being allowed to stay rent free for 2 years and do not see the other side of the transaction.

The fact that a family would stay in the apartment for a year and not pay any rent is dispicable and this is a huge problem we face in society today of people who "want something for nothing" and that the world owe's them a living.

I really dispair and wish you all the best to a prompt resolution.

" My lawyer in Spain says he is ashamed of the Spanish system but there is little more legally we can do."

Just how many times do we have to hear this from the legal profession? It's about time they started to be far more collectively proactive and DO SOMETHING  about this, instead of bemoaning the situation. Why has this situation been allowed to continue for so long..... for the guilty party to have rights over and above those who require speedy protection from the law?

All those considering investing in Spain need to be made aware of the impact and risks associated with this continuing flawed system of justice. Where is the collective legal voice striving to defend their clients' interests from such risk? Sadly we appear to be deafened by their silence.

It's a complete disgrace and does great harm to Spain's already tarnished reputation.

This message was last edited by ads on 16/12/2012.

What's the legal situation if you don't have a contract but do short-term lets e.g. 1 or 2 weeks, with cash in advance and passport number?  Can people refuse to move out? 

My understanding is that you take a risk whenever you hand your keys over - a Spanish friend who did such rentals once told us that the best way to avoid problems is to rent to non-Spaniards or, more accurately, people who don't live in Spain.  If, for example, British people pay a good whack with a deposit on top and you're pretty sure they're flying in to Spain, then they are likely to leave.  I don't know if the police would help you eject them or not if they were only meant to stay for a week or two... I've never heard of 'holiday-makers' not leaving or of police getting involved.  I think it's one of those things that you can worry about that could happen, but is very unlikely to. 

I would cut off the utilities - illegal or not.  Who is going to prosecute?  You can always say that you do not have the money to pay like the people staying in your property for free are doing.  It will take even longer to try to prosecute you.

dosent work like that

people have rights to stay in the house and if you cut the supplies off its not just an argument.

the giardia will turn up and they are pretty brutal as opposed to the soft english.

you will end up banged up abroad

 are the utilities in the tenants name?

if so - then i can't see any problem with not paying it - but that is just my opinion and may not be the best action to take.

If the utilities remain in the owner's name (such as with a holiday let) then just stop paying.  No one can force you to hand over money for services you are not receiving.

Mungry - I doubt very much if the guardia have any jurisdiction "abroad" and many people who let their houses in Spain don't live there.

How would the Guardia become involved?

Surely it is a civil matter?

The situation can be described as nothing short of robbery.

There is no difference to going up to somebody in the street and stealing from them because you don't want to pay

your electricity bill yourself.

Such a shameful circus of events.

I agree, MonCapitan. Not sure if the guardia would get involved except to respond to a complaint by the "tenant".  I actually did turn the electricity off temporarily at my property when the tenant wouldn't pay - he moved out within a couple of days, having refused to pay rent or utilities for 2 months.

 good to hear that Competa.

I believe (rightly or wrongly) that a freeloader follows the principle of least effort - therefore you need to make leaving your property the action with the least effort.

what other action can you recommend?

disconnection of water ?  removal of white goods etc?

turning up bright and early every day to discuss the late rent.

Moncapitan and Competa, you're going to love my book when I actually manage to get a publisher for it - it's all about these tenants from hell and when you follow the letter of the law as we do in the UK, you'll see what mugs we're taken for... But we have to do it the legal route if we don't want to tarnish our own reputations.  We've done the knocking regularly on the door - they just don't answer and we have no right to enter and even if we tried they'd have the door dead-bolted from the inside or on a chain.  I've often thought it's the same as them stealing thousands out of our pocket or nicking my handbag in the street.  It has the same effect for us.  It's enough to send a person around the bend.  Instead of going around the twist though, I've written about it.  I'll be plugging it heavily on this site when it's eventually published (even if I have to do it as an e-book).  All the best.

 Hi, sorry to hear of this awful sitation. (Yet another bad experience story sadly - one of many!)

For those who do not know how ludicrious the 'law' is here, Dave cannot cut off the utilities - (and he will be fined/chased for any debts if he just stops paying), also it is correct that he is not legally able to do this as he has tenants and he could end up in trouble - Daft I know, but fact...

I understood Dave there was a 'Fast Track' system to get non paying tenants out (I presume they no longer have any funds to pay the rent?) In Malaga at least there is a fixed fee (I think it was around Eu1,000) and the court will give the eviction notice within 6 months.

You should not have to put up with this situation a mintue longer than you 'legally' have to.

I think the suggestion that you get your lawyer to present the case that you need the property for your own use is a good one.

Also a second opinion doesn't hurt.

I wish you luck Dave. This is a nightmare situation! 

Oh - and the law is an ass! 

It's all good advice,but what if you, as the owner, do not have the money to pay the utilities.  I still think it's worth the risk to cut them off .