Spain cracking down on prostitution!

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19 Oct 2012 08:52 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 408 posts Send private message

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 The Government is cracking down on protitution recently, but has taken a different approach, now they are fining the clients more than the prostiutes themselves. In Barcelona and other provinces people are being fined up to €3000, they have a chance to pay it on the spot or the fine gets sent home. Well you can imagine what problems that would cause if the fine gets intercepted by one's dearly beloved! As there is no "discretion" in the description of the offense. So I think it's a great deterrant, atleast to get prostitutes off the roads and away from residential areas and stop all the curb crawling that goes on in the cities.

How is this dealt with in the UK? How come they have such a big problem here in Spain? I don't remember ever seeing prostitutes roaming the streets there and I don't think the laws are very different. 



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19 Oct 2012 09:07 by bobaol Star rating. 2256 posts Send private message

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 You've obviously led a sheltered life, mac75.  I used to work in an area in Leicester where the prostitutes would, indeed, roam the streets.  One street and there was one on every corner (fighting for space with the drug dealers).  It got so bad that we used to have to arrange escorts for receptionists to go home in the evenings (after 4 in the winter).  I'm sure most other big cities in UK have the same problems.  In Germany, prostitutes used to set up caravans on the laybys on main roads.  

Prostitution, in UK, is not illegal.  Soliciting, however, is as is running a house for the purposes of prostitution.  So it is the client who is breaking the law as is the owner of the property where it is carried out.  Police in UK regularly stop "kerb crawlers" in these areas and fine them for soliciting.  The fine, and the letter, is sent to the house so the likelihood of the wife seeing it is just as great.

Spain has tried to cut down on prostitution before by moving the girls (?) on but it didn't seem to work.  Targetting the clients might be the best way forward.





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19 Oct 2012 09:20 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 408 posts Send private message

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 Obviously did live a sheltered life!:)  Most of my chldhood I lived in Cambridge, so it wasn't obviously a hot spot for prostitiutes!  None the less I also live in London for a few years and on the south coast in Bournemouth and I never saw anthing to the extents of what goes on in Spain, even in the small towns. From recent press reports this is a new initiative so I think it is the way forward, it just amazes why they didn't do it years ago. 



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19 Oct 2012 10:02 by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

My experience Mac is that it is far more widespread and in your face in Spain.  Now that we're back in the UK we really notice it in Spain.  The police turn a blind eye to it in the town near our village in Spain.  The women sit at a table on the roundabout and are there all day (don't know about the night as I'm never down there then).  I bet if someone checks out the statistics (if there are any accurate ones on this), they will find there are far mor prostitutes operating on the streets in Spain and in all of those horrible clubs where they force women to 'work' (it's sexual abuse in fact) for a pittance after promising them other kinds of work when they brought them from their country of origin.  Again, there's a bit of that in the UK too, but I'd bet it's ten times worse in Spain.



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19 Oct 2012 10:39 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5245 posts Send private message

It is not actually illegal in Spain

Many prostitutes pay taxes and In Malaga the town hall has actually erected shelters for them to work from.

 

 

Wikipedia:- 

Legal status

Prostitution (Prostitución) was decriminalised in 1995. Prostitution itself is not directly addressed in the Criminal Code of Spain, but exploitation such as pimping is illegal. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]

The only article in the Code dealing specifically with adult prostitution is Artícle 188, which bans pimping:[9]

1. El que determine, empleando violencia, intimidación o engaño, o abusando de una situación de superioridad o de necesidad o vulnerabilidad de la víctima, a persona mayor de edad a ejercer la prostitución o a mantenerse en ella, será castigado con las penas de prisión de dos a cuatro años y multa de 12 a 24 meses. En la misma pena incurrirá el que se lucre explotando la prostitución de otra persona, aun con el consentimiento de la misma''.

Owning an establishment where prostitution takes place is in itself legal, but the owner cannot derive financial gain from the prostitute or hire a person to sell sex because prostitution is not considered a job and thus has no legal recognition.

Local government

Local governments differ in their approaches to both indoor and outdoor prostitution, usually in response to community pressure groups, and based on 'public safety'. [10] Most places do not regulate prostitution, but the government of Catalonia offers licenses for persons "to gather people to practice prostitution". [11] These licenses are used by brothel owners to open 'clubs', where prostitution takes place (the women are theoretically only 'gathered' to work on the premieres not employed by the owner). Some places have implemented fines for street prostitution. [12] [13]


 

 

Just in passing. 
 
Prostitution in UK is also not illegal.
 
Soliciting for prostitution in a public place is, as too is loitering to pick up prostitutes or soliciting and of course living on immoral earnings -- that includes,  landlords permitted it on their premises.
 
Also, nudity in public is also not illegal in Spain, except close to schools

 





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19 Oct 2012 19:47 by davmunster Star rating in Carvajal\Belfast. 843 posts Send private message

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It's certainly more in your face on CDS - look at the dozens of adds in the free English Language papers - you'd never get that in the UK. They include adds from brothels as well as indivual prostitutes and they don't seem concerned about revealing their locations.

There is a large brothel just down the road from us. The girls shop, go to the beach and local bars during the day then go to work at night. They don't appear to be being coerced and given the amount of hairdressers, beauty salons etc  that benefit from their trade they seem to do OK. I am not sure I would call this exploitation and I've never seen the police show any concern at all. 

 



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20 Oct 2012 08:03 by leoleon Star rating in Estepona. 38 posts Send private message

If prudes rule the roost then indeed every effort would be made to eradicate this profession.

If common sense prevails then there is nothing wrong with 'WILLING'  females from providing this valuable service.

The sin is really with the pimps that force UNWILLING females to provide this service.

Why does it seem to be more prevelent in Spain? Well one reason is that common sense prevails and Spain is not ruled by prudes.

Another reason is that there are many retired gentlemen in Spain that cannot readily find a suitable partner, as younger men do.

Thus prostittion is in much demand, also from the local none prudish men..

Driving it underground will result in a significant increase in trafficing and the forcing of unfortunates on the game.

It might be naîeve to suggest that some of the unsold urbanisations could be utilised as State controlled brothels.

Conditions, cleanliness, protection, renumeration and good order could be controlled to a very high standard.

The fly in the ointment might be that this sort of activity might be open to corruption in any country.

The success would depend on the resolution and determination of the organising authority.

Those girls and ladies who have been forced into business have my deepest sympathy and all authorities should make every effort to eliminate this disgraceful trade in these unfortunate females.

Those ladies who are providing an essential service by choice have my complete respect.

And yes I am aware that there are young men forced into this trade. That is indeed another tragedy that needs to be addressed.

Sincerely

Leo

 

 





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20 Oct 2012 08:19 by Delaluzian Star rating in Portugal. 33 posts Send private message

The only reason any official institution cracks down on anything is if they see it as a source of revenue. Some of us find the priviledged place churches enjoy in society offensive, far more offensive than someone paying for a service which is older than most of the churches. Do we hear anything of them being cracked down on, not on your nelly because then the government would need to take on the real powers in our society.

I see the issue a svery simple. Ensure the existing law on exploiitation, tax, planning and anything else which applies to the majorty is applied universally, without fear or favour. Apply a property tax to church buildings in the same way it is applied to all others, remove the charitable status accorded to religious bodies and force monks and priests to work withthin the woking hours directive for at least minimum pay Ensure brothels charge vat.and issue reciepts, perhaps insist their users undergo the same identity checks which apply to bank customers. 

Broaden your hosrizons, lose the moral high ground; it will give you vertigo and think imaginatively about how we can rebuild the failed institutions of Western Europe. Leave the underdogs alone and concentrate on reforming the people who are the real problem, the millenia old institutions which weild real power in our society and answer only to themselves. Beware the controls being proposed which will tighten the grip of these powerful and invisible people who really run society. We do not need a federal Europe imposed by stealth. The German Chancellor iss out to achieve what a predecessor failed to achieve, European domination and she's nearly there.

Don't allow the authorities to use smokescreens like this to hide what really matters, leave these poor sex workers alone and sort out the politicians.



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20 Oct 2012 09:06 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5245 posts Send private message

With prostitution being lawful in Spain, and prostitutes and brothels paying their taxes,  it means that there is much less chance of exploitation as the women can make official complaints to the police. That is virtually impossible in the UK, although occasionally it does happen when things get really nasty.
 
Of course there are some illegals working or being forced to work but that is a different problem as there are legals in many jobs.
 
OK it needs to be loosely controlled to prevent nuisance but that applies to practically all businesses.
 
Seem to work quite well in Spain, and as the saying goes:  if what they offer is not wanted the will move on into something else. Not much chance of that happening anytime soon I think.





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20 Oct 2012 11:22 by Citibox Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

I think there is a huge difference between a well regulated "Club" (there is an official association of brothel owners in Spain) and the smaller, seamier and unregulated outfits.  I have seen girls in barely any clothing shivering in the snow on an industrial estate in Northern Spain and my wife and I regularly play guess "Tarts or Cops" because either the prostitutes or the Guardia Civil occupy a roundabout in Southern Spain which we frequently pass.  I have been to a brothel (Club) only once in my life out of curiosity with a friend.  He indulged, I didn't but had a long conversation with Michela from Romania at the bar.  She was saving money to return home, the environment was secure with huge bouncers in case of trouble and she was there of her own choice.

The poor girls on the street are not there through choice but through necessity.  Often they are pimped by a man dealing them drugs to satisfy a habit he himself has started.  There are trafficked "sex slaves" and recently a "Bar" in a nearby town had one of its rooms torched - I have no idea whether the man was cross with the woman or what the reason was.

In summary, prostition is fine if it is between consenting adults but if one of the pair is coerced or so desperate that she is doing it against her will then the state should crack down on the man and try and help the woman.





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20 Oct 2012 14:01 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5245 posts Send private message

How is this dealt with in the UK? How come they have such a big problem here in Spain? I don't remember ever seeing prostitutes roaming the streets there and I don't think the laws are very different.

Mac as I said, its because in Spain prostitution is not illegal (some bye laws in some cities regulate it) in UK it a criminal offence to solicit both for the women (and men) and their customers (although being a prostitute is not illegal).
 

Thus the laws are very dfferent





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20 Oct 2012 21:18 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 408 posts Send private message

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 Ok thanks for clearing that up, for some reason I thought it was as it is in the UK.



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21 Oct 2012 09:41 by dbd Star rating. 63 posts Send private message

Read an article couple of months back about classes being run in prostitution in Valencia (if i remember rightly) and in the first month 100 girls had applied.





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24 Oct 2012 11:48 by eos_ian Star rating in Valencia. 488 posts Send private message

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 Very true dbd, it was all over the press. They tried to take them to court to shut down the course but to no avail. 



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24 Oct 2012 11:57 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5245 posts Send private message

This is not an advert for them (I have no shres in the company) but this is there web site:- 

                            http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/09/13/valencia/1347529992.html
 





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24 Oct 2012 13:17 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1114 posts Send private message

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Spains two para-military police authorities the Mossos d'Esquadra and the Gardia Civil do in fact have the girls best interests at heart it seems...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/8086050/Spanish-prostitutes-ordered-to-wear-reflective-vests-for-their-own-safety.html

Given Spain's abnormally high unemployment and severely restricted unemployment benefits, ladies that take on this profession voluntarily to protect and provide for their families are to be applauded not scorned. I do not fully support prostitution; I know of couples being in the situation where there is no food in the cupboard, no money to pay the rent and no help available. On my estate in the UK this tended to be the norm rather than the exception, many wives / girlfriends took to the streets and clubs as a last resort.

I cannot accept or tolerate any form of violence against, or exploitation of, women whether they be involved in prostitution or not. Something does need to be done worldwide to help the ladies and sometimes the men who get caught up in this exploitative profession. Cracking down on prostitutes themselves is not the way to go; cracking down on the pimps who benefit from it most definitely is.

I have to support Delaluzian's post on this matter especially the comment about smokescreens. Reformation is needed but not at street level; it should start at the very top of government and work down through the legal system. One respected spanish judge, Balthasar Gurtel tried and was severely beaten down during Gurtel / Francisco Camps / 'Suitgate' affair. Sure he overstepped the mark but not without just cause. The political hierarchy decided however to stamp on him rather than the corruption he had uncovered.

Political expediency makes it far easier to stomp on the ordinary people than the high-ups as witness recent events in Madrid.

fb

 


This message was last edited by foxbat on 24/10/2012.

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01 Nov 2012 15:28 by lmjohn Star rating in S Wales & Piedra Ama.... 14 posts Send private message

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Mac75, There are prostitutes in most towns. You may have not seen many in Cambridge as you were a child. Histon Road was rife with them. I studied at Cambridge and there are many places where you see them.

LMJ





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01 Nov 2012 15:37 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5245 posts Send private message

Imjohn

As soliciting for prostitution is illegal in UK one not expect to see it so obviously as one would in Spain where it is not illegal (in most circumstances)

 

 

Just like in UK it is illegal to have sex when under 16, in Spain it is 13 (or may recently have been increased to 14).  Thus if one looks at the figures, many more girls under 16 have sex in Spain than in the UK.    Legal and Illegal.

 Prostitution under 18 is an offence, free sex is not.

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 01/11/2012.



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01 Nov 2012 15:47 by leoleon Star rating in Estepona. 38 posts Send private message

 In the Dutch papers today.....

Prostitution register legislation delayed again

Wednesday 31 October 2012

Justice minister Ivo Opstelten is to revise some aspects of new legislation on prostitution following concerns from the upper house of parliament.

Senators are concerned about how effective the law will be in practice, Nos television says.

The aim of the legislation is to better regulate prostitution by standardising the licencing system and setting up an official register of prostitutes.

The legislation will also require punters to make sure they are visiting a legal prostitute. If the customer fails to check and the prostitute is unregistered he will have committed a criminal offence and could be fined.

This is the second time the senate has delayed the legislation, Nos says. Earlier, senators wanted more information about the data protection aspects of the new law and the implications of human rights legislation.

Like it or not, they do provide a necessary service for many. This statement must be true otherwise there would not be so many of them. They do need to be registered and NOT exploited by criminals.

Cheers
Leo 

 

 





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01 Nov 2012 16:00 by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1114 posts Send private message

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quote...The aim of the legislation is to better regulate prostitution by standardising the licencing system and setting up an official register of prostitutes.

OK its Holland but...the more cynical among us might just argue that the licencing system is one means by which the State itself can exploit the 'ladies of the night.'  I wonder how much the licence costs...?

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