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I am 41 years old and moved here from England in 2003. I had my residencia card but let it lapse. In the meantime I have become unfit for work through ill health requiring regular attendance at hospital as an outpatient and monitoring bymy GP. When I tried to renew my residencia they wouldn't do so because I cannot support myself. I have lived with a pensioner lady as her partner for the last 3 years. I have applied 3 times for my Vida Laboral without success so far. I've asked the consultant and GP for certification to testify I am incapacitated and only been given an address in Alicante. Social Security wouldn't put me onto my partner's SIP card because she is a pensioner and was tiold to apply to the UK. She is afraid that living with a man will affect her pension (she is widowed) although i contribute zilch to the household. I actually have my own SIP card but think I need to be put under her wing, so to speak, in an attempt to prove that I don't need an income, that I am being looked after financially. Any thoughts on the matter?
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You are a permanent resident , regardless of what they are telling you. The fact that you had a tarjeta means that the new rules do not apply to you.The fact that it is out of date means nothing if the expiration is not over 4 years.
They are trying to get shot of you.
If you get on to the Cruz Roja legal service they offer free of charge legal advice & abogados.
Also contact http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/help/index_en.htm
You can ask the questions of them & they will reply within 1 week . Also you can get them to act on your behalf.
You can apply to the Overseas healthcare team in Newcastle for a ' Letter of legislation' which states that you have no entitlement to healthcare in the UK & are not in receipt of a pension nor any benefits. This qualifies you for hjealthcare under the bi-lateral agreement regardless of EU rules. You must have the resideny registration though.
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Todos somos Lorca.
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Thank-you. I don't have my old residencia card but am afraid it MIGHT have expired more than 4 years ago. Will look into other advice though.
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If you have been living in Spain for 5+ years (with or without 'residencia' or being on the EU Citizens Register) you ARE a permanent resident as Gus-Lopez states. This has a specific legal meaning under EU directives. One of them is that once you became a 'permanent resident' (which happens automarically, and with no need to apply). Your continued stay is 'unconditional'. This means no financial 'tests', no medical insurance requirements. It means what it says. Unconditional.
You main problem is dealing with officials who have no clue about this, and in some cases, who will try to mislead you. Do not be taken in by this. You have very specific rights and you are entitled to enforce them.
There are several sources of help and advice. Use them.
Your type of case is, I suspect, going to become increasingly common. It is extremely important that you stand up for your rights and go through the official channels to complain and get help. This is the only way, over time, that Spain will be forced to abide by the rules it signed up to.
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Just out of interest D66,
you suggest forcefully that poster here with a grievance should take stiff action against authority, how is your private action, in support of the oppressed posters, going in the EU courts to establish that Spain is wrong. ? And how long ago was it that you made your official complaint in Spain ?
This message was last edited by johnzx on 20/09/2012.
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I do in fact have several complaints in progress. Hopefully they will be resolved long before any EU court needs to become involved. Some of the issues involve points of law. Some of these have been answered, others are still awating clarification. All of these cases are proceeding normally. Be assured that the information I have posted here is based directly upon the advice received from the relevant departments both within Spain and from those in the EU charged with overseeing the correct implementation of Union Directives.
PS: I am unclear as to whether you are challenging the accuracy of the advice given by both Gus-Lopez and myself (below)?
This message was last edited by 66d35 on 20/09/2012.
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PS: I am unclear as to whether you are challenging the accuracy of the advice given by both Gus-Lopez and myself (below)?
No of course not, but I have no personal interest in challenging the system the way it works as it has never caused me any problems, even though I have a non-European wife and thus have more requirements to comply with. Thank God I we don’t live in UK where the requirements are draconian.
When I post here I just tell people who ask what happens when they attend the police station to get their paperwork
I base all my posts of what actually happens every day at the Police Station where I work.
I make no comment on whether it complies with the law of Europe or not, just that it is the easy way for those who do not wish to be litigious.
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Thistles, this is in reply to your private message to me.
I assisted a man who had arrived in Spain the day before to take up a job offer. The potential employer wanted him to get an NIE number.
The police station said that as he was going to take a job, he intended to stay longer that three months in Spain, as such he was obliged to register on the EU Citizens Register. To do that he needed to prove income and medical cover.
Of course, he could do neither.
I asked for the complaints form on his behalf. The officer in charge of the documentation centre, listened again to my explanation of the situation and that the application did not fall within the guidelines as probably intended.
He was then allowed to register and he got the job
PS I try only to fight the battles which are necessary, and which I have a good chance of winning.
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Johnzx, isn't it important that people are advised of what their actual rights are, rather than what happens where you are?
It would be a shame if people like Thistles, when they encounter the authorities applying incorrect rules, may give up and go back to Britain, if they don't know what their rights are, and where they can get help.
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The police station said that as he was going to take a job, he intended to stay longer that three months in Spain, as such he was obliged to register on the EU Citizens Register.
I hope you challenged that assertion too, as it is incorrect. "Intent" has no part in it. Only an actual, physical presence over 90 days gives rise to such an obligation.
Who trains these officers?
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D66.
I am sure I have read on the Spanish infos that staying 3 months permanently or intending to do so requires registration.
Certainty the UK Gov advice includes ‘planning to stay 3 months or more’ as at
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38/2004, Article 8. Paragraph 2. I quote:
2. The deadline for registration may not be less than three months from the date of arrival. A registration certificate shall be issued immediately, stating the name and address of the person registering and the date of the registration
In other words, there is no obligation to register at any time before the 90 are up. Any demand to regsister before that is clearly unlawful. Obviously, if somone wishes to register earlier, they are allowed to do so, but they should not be coerced in to so doing.
This message was last edited by 66d35 on 20/09/2012.
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D66
OK I give up, you are right everyone else is probably wrong.
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AS OF 1ST SEPT 2012 I WAS NOT ALLOWED ON SPANISH HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. I WAS PIGGY BACKING ON MY PARTNERS S1 WHICH THE UK HAD CONFIRMED WAS OK. I AM 64 AND MY PARTNER 65. I HAVE RESEDENTIA, PAY MY TAXES AND I NOW HVE TO WAIT UNTIL I HAVE BEEN ON PADRON FOR 1 YEAR BEFORE I CAN BE INCLUDED ON THE SPANISH HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
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No-one will be wrong if they:
a) Read the relevant legislation.
b) Make an effort to understand not only the letter of it, but the guiding principles that are behind it.
c) If in doubt, seek advice from specialists in the field.
It is not complicated. You simply have to 'get your head around' the fact that the whole intent of it is to minimise 'red tape' for EU citizens and to give them some very specific (and abosolute) legal rights as far as free movement is concerned. The authorities even provide a 100% free help and advisory service, available to everyone, in all languages.
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Edna,
How long have you lived here?
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Edna, I don’t understand why you have a problem.
When I got married 6 years ago my wife, a non-European came to live in Spain. I was already a pensioner with health cover in Spain, was 34.
I contacted the overseas dept of the UK National Health Service and was sent an E121 which showed she was covered by the UK.
My wife got a Spanish Health Card.
Of course, when I die she will lose the cover after 12 months.
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IT APPEARS THE RULES ALL CHANGED ON 1ST SEPT 2012. MY ASESORIA HAD THE FORMS FOR THREE WEEKS BUT ONLY GOT THE APPOINTMENT ON THE 3RD SEPT. HAD HE GONE THE PREVIOUS WEEK IT WOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH. THE DWP IN UK WERE NOT ADVISED OF THESE CHANGES AND WERE SUPRISED WHEN I SPOKE T THEM
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Edna-surely you were already on the padron if living in Spain.When you became 60, why didn't you apply via DWP to be on the Spanish health system. Even though you piggybacked, as I did before I was 60, you had the right to apply at state pension age. I am the same age as you, Now, they have changed the retirement age, women have to wait till 65, but you should have been ok. it makes sense to get cover in your own right as soon as you become of age, as when your partner dies, you are no longer covered-something many do not realise until it's too late, and needing healthcare.
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