New rules on NIE and Residencia

Many thanks to Dizzyspain for trying to bring clarity to the differance between NIE and Residencia.

What I don't understand -- is a Residencia required? 

My situation:  US citizen.  Arrived 3.5 years ago to work for an organization.  They did most of the required footwork and paperwork to ensue all was completely legal -- though I did present in person to get my first NIE.  (My NIE type is Residencia y Trabajo)

Worked for the organization for over 3 years.  I have always had an established bank account, I am registered at the CAP, I have re-newed NIE twice, I do my tax returns every year.  I am currently registered unemployed and on paro.  During all this time, I have never, never been asked for a Residencia card or paper by anyone; authorities, businesses, etc.  

Have I been unwittingly remiss?  (I always want to do everything required by law of the country I am living in.) Do I legally need to apply for a residencia?

Many thanks for anyone who knows the correct answer and is willing to share.

As a US citizen your immigration status is entirely dependent upon the terms of entry of the visa you used to enter the EU with in the first place. You need to check this carefully. You also need to get professional legal advice from an immigration law specialist. There are only a very limited set of circumstances that allow a non-EU citizen to remain indefinitely. One is marriage/civil partnership to an EU citizen. Most general visas are time-limited and require periodic renewal. If the circumstances (work, for example) that gave rise to them granting the visa change, it can become quite complicated. You really do need to seek expert legal advice. In essence, a US citizen has no more right to permanantly live and work in the EU than an EU citizen has to relocate to the US. It is not an easy process either way. My wife is a US citizen, who subequently also took out British nationality, hence, now has dual nationality and is treated as an EU citizen in Spain. I have also had dealings with the INS in the US....  neither the EU nor the US makes this easy - for anyone.

hello,  66d35, thanks for your comments.

We took our  Epana Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de la Union

El Encargado del reistro central de extranjeros en la Comisaria de Fuengirola.

The UK paperwork from Newcastle stated we needed to taka our Residencia.

The UK paperwork from Newcastle stated we needed to taka our Residencia.

Unfortunately, officials everwhere tend to issue contradictory and confused advice. You are doing well if you can find one that knows their job. The same also applies to more than a few lawyers.

I don't have any problem  I DON'T have a licence I DON'T have a car I no longer have a property in Spain  However I used to stay in Spain for 4 months a year. It may be because I'm a millionare and I can get buy with all the necessary bribes that exist

It would be helpful to have separate threads each for Driving licences, NIE, Residence and Tax status as all have different laws that apply and are dependant on your status as an EU citizen (or not) and where you spend most of your time, where you own property and where you work.  It gets very confusing if a single question mixes these items up.

I have had to read all the posts here in this thread to get some clue as to the correct and current situation with regards to the above items and I am still not sure that they take account of current Spanish and British laws or any changes recently enacted or proposed.

The bottom line for me is not to consider living for anytime in Spain, apart from an annual 14 day holiday, without engaging the services of bilingual lawyers and accountants and having every scrap of correspondance professionally translated.  I consider this a nessesary cost of living in Spain for the long term and factor it in with every other cost of property purchase.  I would also have a letter in both Spanish and English detailing my full rights under EU and Spanish Law with me at all times to give to the Police or any misinformed jobsworth I might encounter.

 QUOTE

Thermal;

I hope I don’t  shatter any illusions but whist what you say is entirely reasonable, but you clearly show by your post ( you did mention it) that you have not experienced living in Spain (at least Southern Spain).

That is, I would say, rather an extreme apprpoach! Certainly in the years I have lived here I have had very, very few real problems and most of the small 'issues' that arise can be sorted out pretty easily. I had more problems in the UK, who seem to be really overboard these days with ludicrous regulations and demands for crazy amounts of paperwork to do the simplest thing. It is really quite easy-going here, by comparison. People sometimes seem to make all this out to be much more complex than it really is, by "assuming" things, especially. Don't assume. Check. Then you'll have fewer problems!

 thermal

seems you are new on here just so you know this thread has gone the usual way so everyone is confused and  rushing around in circles achieving absolutely nothing shame really

My thanks too to dizzyspain for explaining NIE and residencia. I still have one question. You list the requirements for people who are not an EU citizen or married to an EU citizen. However, what about a non-EU citizen (US) who WAS married to an EU citizen and therefore has a permanent visa in an EU country (Germany)? What requirements would apply in that situation? What would I need to do to apply for an NIE as a first step?

 The best people to talk to as to what you need in order to be legal in Spain isthe Embassy or Consulate of your own country i.e. if you are American the US Embassy and they should be able to help point you in the right direction after all that is what they are there for.

The NIE is simply a tax registration number. You need it for almost all major financial transactions:

Buying or registering a car

Buying or renting a house

Opening a bank account

You need it for all kinds of things. To go with it, for some things, you also need to be on the padron (similar to an electroral register at your town hall).

SusanS, if you have PERMANENT RESIDENCE / INDEFINITE LEAVE TO REMAIN status in any EU country this will be recognised in most other EU countries. The UK, Ireland and Denmark are not part of Council Directive 2003/109/EC of 25 November 2003 Concerning the Status of Third-country Nationals who are Long-term Residents, so those particular countries are not an option!  Spain is, however.  This is the official wording:

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/justice_freedom_security/free_movement_of_persons_asylum_immigration/l23034_en.htm

The US Embassy, incidentally, does not give individual legal advice. They will suggest you contact an immigration lawyer. As specific circumstances do vary, this is indeed what you should do.

Hope this helps.

Thank you, 66d35, that is indeed extremely helpful!! I had thought that something like that must exist for non-EU nationals with permanent residence but had no idea where to look.

So when I move to Spain, I assume I would simply present myself, after 3 months latest, for "registration" as would any EU national in lieu of applying for the former "residencia".

I had been thinking it could make sense to go ahead and apply for the NIE so that when it does come time to conduct any transactions this paperwork is already through. Now it sounds like I could just as easily wait until I actually move - unless I want to buy property before actually moving, in which case I would need to have the NIE number already issued. Does that sound about right? My time frame is still relatively long-term - 1 to 2 years - but I will be in Spain next week visiting my daughter and thought I might take the opportunity to apply for the NIE - if that makes sense at this point.

They are now issuing NIE's and certificates of registration at the same time. They used to be separate. If you are talking about a year or more delay, then it is probably best to wait until closer to the time. With any luck, they may even have abolished the riduculous 'registration' rules by then as they really are a total waste of time that achieves absolutely nothing - except job creation for beaurocrats, and Spain needs to find some financial savings! That would be a good place to start. Thousands of staff filling in useless forms that have no useful purpose whatever.

 if you are eligable for nie etc it takes an hour in local national police station

Leagally you don't have to do anything. No need to change your driving licence nor to get a residencia or certificate from the police department, as you are only here occasionally. So don't worry.

It was interesting to see on here that after five years you become a permanent resident and also that you do not need "residencia".  I have been here eight years and my "residence card" expired three years ago.  Didn´t bother doing anything about it as everyone seemed quite happy to just see it if I needed to show my id.  However a couple of weeks ago I tried to take out a contract for a mobile phone and was told that I had to have the "green form" or I couldn´t have a contract.  So I thought okay I will get it sorted.  Went down today to do so and was told "No, I couldn´t have it as the law has changed and they are waiting for instructions".  Apart from now not being able to get the phone contract there is also the possibility that I will need to buy a new car so that will be a problem.  How do you therefore prove that you do not need a certificate and how do you get around it?

 Buying the car shouldn't be a problem.  Without the green card, we were asked for rental agreement/deeds and NIE to prove where we lived (along with all the other things, of course).  The green card simply negated the need for the deeds and NIE.

Regarding the issue of these cards and the rules changing, it has been reported that you now need to show proof of medical cover (I assume S1) and proof of income.  We were asked for proof of income when changing our bank account from non-res to res.

This was mentioned on another site plus it was being talked about on the radio.