New rules on NIE and Residencia

 A sign in the office at Torrevieja now says you need to sign a statement that you have an income to support you and your family.  No proof is required, simply a form to fill in and sign.

It does, however, ask for a current SIP card, an S1 or a letter from the INSS saying you are entitled to medical cover (which, I assume, are the forms we received when we registered our S1).  This may be the difficult bit.  It doesn't mention anything abour private medical insurance but maybe they haven't got round to that yet.  This is for new applications only, not renewals.  Our local town hall is still issuing temporary SIP cards with padron.

It does, however, ask for a current SIP card, an S1 or a letter from the INSS saying you are entitled to medical cover (which, I assume, are the forms we received when we registered our S1).  So this is actually proof then.  Does it say anything about renewals rather than new applications?

There are no renewals ! Eu rules state you can be asked to register  "once only, with no requirement for renewal, without let or hindrance , at no cost & within a reasonable distance of your place of abode. "

If there is a differnce between EU rules & a countries national laws, EU rules take precedence.

If you have been here for 5 years, you are a permanent resident.  No renewals are necessary, Permanent residency is acquired automatically and is "subject to no conditions", neither it is dependent upon any administrative procedure.

johnzx, as a 'junior detective', I suggest you go and do some detecting, or at least bother to read the documents you feel able to comment on! If you cannot be bothered to "wade through it" as you put it, it seems rather odd to me that you feel able to express any opinion on it at all.

But how do you prove that without a "piece of paper!"

If you had an existing certificate of registration that has expired, that is the proof. Not that there is any requirement as such for proof. You can simply request a certificate of permanent residence in place of the initial one, however, instead of a renewal. You just need to tick a different box on the form. I stress again though, there is no requirement for this. You are entitled to a certificate if you want one. It does not expire.

(In general as Johnzx has said repeatedly and long before 66 posted anything) )  at present (since April 2007) when the Residencia was abolished for EU citizens, they have been required to register on the EU Citizens Register. As of now, that registration is permanent and, therefore, there is no requirement to renew. Of course things could change at some time with new legislation.

66 (38 posts)  I do not find your rude remarks about johnxz (790 post)  who has helped so many people with practical and good advice, in keeping with the friendly attitude of most posters.

I went to the National Police Station in Fuengirola today and was given a form EX-18 this is an application for a certificate as EU resident. It last for 5 years after which I have to fill in a form EX-16 which is an application for a certificate as a Permanent EU Resident which has no expiry date.. Both the initial and 5 year registrations cost 10.20€.

Whether this process complies with EU law or not is not really relevant - in Fuengirola at least you can't get a permanent certificate until you have had the 5 year one.

Did you have to prove your income in any way David?

My appoinment is for next Tuesday but I was assured only passport and copy required

Well Dave after you've got your form ask for the 'hojas de reclamacion'  & make a complaint that A) they are charging for something that is required to be supplied free B) that you have been required to return   to collect the certificate.

Ziggyblue. Under EU rules the fact that you are standing there is enough on its own.

What I have noticed since I've been reading all these EU rules is the way they are written . When you've studied a few the common theme comes through . They are all written as though independent nations have all become regions of the EU. Probably the ultimate intention.

Told today that perhaps the green form that the mobile phone company wanted was not the certificate of registrado but a copy of my NIE which is now green and which I should be renewing too!

The NIE never needs renewing. It is for life.

The 'Certificate of Registration' also has no expiry date. After 5 years you have acquired permanent resident status automatically. You are no longer required to have any certificate whatsoever. No-one should ever "renew" a registration certificate. These demands that you do are absolutely unlawful.They have no basis as all.

We got our Registration Certs today. It took just over an hour in the National Police station in Fuengirola. Our NIEs had been issued in Marbella so they had to ring someone to check but other than that no questions were asked.

There is nothing on the card to indicate that it will expire in 5 years - although it did say that on the application form. We'll just have to wait and see.

So nothing said to you about new rules or anything?  Will phone my office and see what they say.

No - no mention of any new rules or anything

I just phoned up our office and asked if they are available and a guy said yes and seemed surprised that I was asking!  Grr.

Just received this from the FCO

Just received this from the FCO.

Thank you for your email regarding the new residency requirements in Spain. The British Consulate is aware that the Spanish authorities have made some changes to the administration procedure for residency certificates in 2012. We are in contact with the Spanish authorities to establish what these changes mean for British Nationals living in Spain and will update our web page with details as they become available.

Sorry to reactivate an old thread but I thought I would share my experience of trying to sign on the Foreigners Register at Almeria's Oficina de Extranjeros. I value greatly the words of wisdom on this forum especially Johnzx and 66d35 but now that the new EX-18 form is active and the rules have changed my experience may help others.

A previous post from 66d35 stated this "Point (a) concerns those in employment or self-employed, point (b) relates to those in retirement or of independent means. Those below retirement age can be asked for proof of private medical cover, and all can be asked to demonstrate that they will not "become a burden on the social security system". "

An indeed I suspected this would be our problem and how right I was. I tried to glean information on what would be considered acceptable as proof of the ability to support yourself and the figures given by Almeria Oficina are €8513.26 p.a. for a couple and €5007.80 for a single applicant. I also read that a P60 from HMRC would be acceptable or a letter from your bank or pension administrator.

Now as we had only been here just over 3 months and wanting to comply with our legal requirement, we made the appointment and took a Spanish friend (still cost me €50 for his time which is fair enough) as a translator just in case there was a problem.

Problem No 1 was resolved just in time as the email from the Oficina stated a fee of €10.30 but luckily my firnd had been there with someone else and discovered it had increased by 10c to €10.40 in January and they had to leave with another 790 form and pay the additional 10c and then return to queue again. So as our friend has a supply of 790 forms (not available yet for download) we were able to pay our additional 2 x 10c before we got there.

Problem No 2 proved to be insurmountable as we seemed to get the "lady" who was going to be awkward or apply the letter of the "law". Everything was fine apart from proof of income, none of the letters from UK banks or pension companies were acceptable as they were not translated into Spanish by a "Traductor-Intérprete Jurado". Likewise the UK bank account showing the pensions being regularly paid in, not in Spanish (but surely figures are the same and the format of a bank statement doesn't change). As my wife's pension on it's own would just about cover the two of us we thought we would be OK with the P60 but NO, once again an official translation was required. I pointed out that she accepted the S1 forms from Newcastle which were not translated but apparently that was different. So how do you translate a P60 and if a UK bank statement shows Scottish Widows as an income, will they translate it to "Las viudas escocesas" lol

Now, as an additional precaution (and having heard it from one of our friends although I didn't think it was necessary) we had started to pay in a regular amount in cash into our Spanish bank under a heading Pension but we only had time for 2 monthly entries, and Guess What she wanted to see more than that, a year if possible but would settle for less (didn't say how much less) - well how on earth can you have a year's worth of income if you're supposed to register after 3 months.

The amount of paperwork we had with us to prove income, it should have been obvious that we would not be a burden on the Spanish state and on the contrary would be a positive benefit as we wold be paying taxes and spending money.

The irony is that lots of people who registered before this requirement don't have to jump through this particular hoop now and I know a few examples in our town who are much more of a drain on the Spanish economy than we would ever be. Also it would be very simple to fool them as they are happy to accept a Spanish bank statement showing "regular income" which is very easy to arrange, even borrow from friends e.g. and pay pay back later or numerous other options.

The upshot is that we have to return within 10 days (an hour's trip each way) with official translations and even then I'm not sure it will be accepted but I live in hope but I wonder sometimes whether it's worth it. I was on a bit of a high before because I had managed to complete our own 210 non residents tax forms and pay them at the bank with no problem.

It will be interesting to hear other's experiences.