FRACTIONAL OWNERSHIP

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16 Oct 2009 00:00 by Davo0101 Star rating in Epsom, surrey. 16 posts Send private message

 Hi Everyone, 

 

I have left a post regarding my personal search for property and have been informed of reletively new concept in europe:

 

Fractional ownership/shared ownership.

When I first looked at it I just assumed that it was timeshare. However, after researching further I can see the differences. The problem is I do not know anyone who has purchased a fraction. Is there anyone who has purchased fractionally and can give me some feedback or advice.

Thanks again

DAVO0101





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17 Nov 2009 20:31 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

I dont know anyone who has done it successfully alhough I guess there must be some - it is Timeshare with a slightly different wrapper - tread with care and ensure you get independent advice before parting with a penny.



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Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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17 Nov 2009 21:40 by Poppyseed Star rating. 898 posts Send private message

In 1984 we bought a property along with four other couples in Torre del Mar. We each owned an equal fifth share and all running costs were shared equally and all our names were on the deeds. There was an annual rota for use (2 weeks five times a year each and 2 weeks a year left free for any maintenance). None of the owners knew each other beforehand we were brought together by the agent, but we had a regular annual meeting to discuss the coming year. Each year one owner became 'chairman' and sorted any problems out and made sure the bills were paid. We were able to swap weeks etc. and there were no problems about the use at all. This state of affairs lasted happily for 20 years when the property was sold as one owner had died and the rest of us had other things we wanted to do, in our case buying our own property in Spain. It worked well for us as in 1984 we couldn't afford to buy a holiday home outright.

This particular arrangement was most definately not time share.. But as with any purchase make sure it will work for you the way you want it to.

Regards, Poppyseed



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17 Nov 2009 22:57 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

Hi Poppyseed I also know of friends that have done similar as a four way split (approx same time as you in fact) - the correct deeds and agreements drawn up (all had been to Timeshare and just not bought into the idea) - all parties agreed at outset that if one "shareholder" wanted out it had to be offered to the others first (at market value) - gradually three of the four dropped out and one of the original four has bought out the other three over a p[eriod of time - few minor headaches but generally worked well for them but they were friends at the outset.



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Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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18 Nov 2009 15:57 by Davo0101 Star rating in Epsom, surrey. 16 posts Send private message

 Thanks to both Poppyseed and Smiley, 

I have researched further on this option and have even talked to the solicitor in the UK, LAWDITS. They informed me that we would be protected by the UK legal system with the other owners. It sounded  pretty airtight. I discussed at length any pit-falls and was generally very satisfied. 

I  have been looking at the Lomas del Rey project which is on the Golden Mile in Marbella.

I know it might be a long shot but is there anyone who has purchased there or has dealt with the Fractional Group 

I have been talking with them so if anyone has any feedback, please help me out. Thanks.

I am visiting Spain in January to view properties and will take a look at this option. I have also started another thread regading a development that I have been looking at in Estepona, Alcazaba Hills. I appreciate everyones continued assistance on both threads. 

Regards, 

Davo





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18 Nov 2009 17:25 by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

Hi Davo0101

Are LAWDITS your solicitors or were they recommended by the property agency?

In my opinion fractional ownership is timeshare. For some timeshare worked but for many other not especially on exit.

You will face all the same problems such as high management charges and contributions to a sinking fund.

OK - they say your title is via a UK company with 4/8/12 other owners but is there a guaranteed exit?

Most agencies want to sell new schemes rather than re-sell existing fractions becuase of commissions etc - what's the resale market like for fractions? too early to say but I would guess similar to re-selling timeshare.

Unless there is a shareholders agreement which sets out a mechanism whereby other co-owners must buy you out under agree terms etc

Is there an insurance backed guarantee if you want to exit - ask for that and see the response.

Property ownership in Spain is difficult enough without adding fractional ownership into the recipe!!!





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18 Nov 2009 20:13 by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

Smiley´s avatar

Hmmm I think this is different as Lomas del Rey (I believe) was never intended for fractional ownership - simply a group that has approached a developer to shift stock on this basis owing to the general market. If memory serves they are high quality and the Golden Mile is perceived to be the best address on the Costa del Sol (no I dont live there before people start throwing tomatoes - you will note I said perceived). In fact the Golden MIle is a strip about 4km wide by about 4km long so why it still bears the name goodness only knows. 

Anyway - this is not a specific development for Timeshare or Fractional so there are full time 100% owners - as with all developments if community fees are not covered vital works will not get done - not sure how they work management charges (if any) as I would assume it will be a straight division of the community fees between each owner - but how do utility bills get apportioned - if the bill is 300€ for instance for electric, who is to say that Fred and his kids havent stayed for 2 weeks and had 24/7 air con but Dave was more careful and only had it on when absolutely necessary - hmmmmm????

Resale market for fractional I believe will always be similar to Timeshare. As Faro says is there a guaranteed exit strategy and if so how watertight is the guarantee. I wouldnt necessarily be inclined to use a lawyer based in the UK (and certainly not one introduced by the company selling you the property).

Finally I am inclined to partly agree/disagree with Faro's final statement - ownership here CAN be difficult enough (and without doubt more complicated than UK - although probably the Spanish would disagree and think the UK system complex) - but if you do things slow and right instead of quick and wrong then there are probably as many (or more) happy property owners here than disenchanted.

For my money (personal opinion) the closer to Marbella you are the better - possibly not quite as real Spain as Estepona (but that is steadily declining) and without a doubt if Alcazaba Hills is as difficult to get to as has been said in the other thread (I havent been up there - although I have heard it is a bit of a "ghost town" - and a lot of unsold product and no commercial facilities) then I would probably not opt for that route - its a connundrum. The good news for you is that it is no longer like the Californian Gold Rush - remember the adage "a fool and his money are soon parted". Take your time - prices aint going anywhere for a good while yet.



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Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com  www.marbellamortgages.com   www.comparetravelcash.co.uk




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19 Nov 2009 09:31 by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

Hi Davo0101

You do need to look closely at how transparent the management company will be in accounting for costs and effectively provision of hotel type services - ie cleaning, supply/change of bed linen etc. These type of companies make a lot of money out of management fees and marking up on costs. You need to look at contracts which I guess the UK company will enter into with the wholly owned fractional management service companies. Also there will be Uk accounting and company secretaial services and you'll be paying for these as well.

The Fractional Group are based in Guernsey although they do have an office here in Spain and then there are various other agencies signed up such as Property Revolution.

Fractional Ownership is a US import and it's early days in Spain so not much experience out there.

You need to look over every document and every contract the UK company will enter into to understand fully what's involved and the potential costs.





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19 Nov 2009 14:16 by Davo0101 Star rating in Epsom, surrey. 16 posts Send private message

 Hi Faro/Smiley

 

Yes the Layers are used by the Fractional group. But from wha I could gather they are behind the concept where as The Fractional Group had the property. THey explained everything about how there is a company setup in which you have a membership share of. 

As far as Goden MIle project, I have seen on the internet where they are still selling properties outright. However they are asking almost a million for some of them. What I was looking at was a 1/12 share for 60k to 96k, dependant on the type. 

I havent checked management fees yet gut it did kind of make sence to me. Lawdits actually told me that you had to offer your share to the other owners before you could put it on the open market. I see that as a plus, as the other owners have purchased exactly the same thing as you are selling. 

I understand that there is not a great market for it yet but it apparantly it has taken off in America so it is plausible that it will take off there. 

Anyway, I appreciate the continued advice..

 

Davo

 





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19 Nov 2009 14:38 by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

Hi Davo0101

 

Are you being attracted becuase of the golfing packages they are putting together?

The issue on exit is what happens if other co-owners do not want to buy you out? are you then back here posting looking for a buyer?

Also compare estimated annual cost with cost of just renting for 4 weeks a year and then you are not also tied to the same place - take into account cost of capital and acquisition and disposal costs.

Whatever you decide PLEASE seek independent legal advice and becuase of the UK company I would suggest an English based English solicitor regulated by the law society of england & wales. That way you are protected by GBP2m in professional indemnity insurance.

Lawdit's area of claimed expertise is intellectual property and you need a solicitor with experience in conveyancing/commerial matters. But I guess their Marbella office may be dabbling in such matters.





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19 Nov 2009 19:34 by lytton Star rating in Bath & North East So.... 422 posts Send private message

Davo

Daft question but if you are prepared to invest the sort of money I think you are saying in your last reply, why aren't you looking at actually buying your own place and own it outright ?

It's a lot less hassle...and risk as the previous replies have suggested.

Phil





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21 Nov 2009 20:34 by roybud Star rating in UK. 36 posts Send private message

I was recently told about David Lloyd Resorts who have started marketing fractional ownership on properties in Spain (and Canada and Thailand). David Lloyd is behind the tennis and sports clubs in the UK and what they are offering seems to be a fairly comprehensive package on high quality golf resorts etc at a sensible price, starting at 24k. I know that fractional ownership is well established in the US and is beginning to 'happen' in Europe and I would have thought if someone like David Lloyd is getting into the market there is a fair chance it is going to take off.

The fundamental difference between fractional and timeshare is you actually own a share in the bricks and mortar and for people (like me) who are unlikely to use the property for more than a few weeks a year it seems to make sense, as you don't have the hassle of maintenance, security etc associated with outright ownership. I am seriously considering this as I am scared stiff by all the corruption and horror stories in Spain. I know you will be paying more pro-rata but you have to consider the overall deal, free holiday accomodation in a high quality property for 10 years, a well established and respected name behind the sales and the potential for a share in the capital growth - it seems to make a lot of sense to me.

You might want to check them out, just google davidlloydresorts(dot)com

Anyone else any thoughts?

Roybud





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26 Nov 2009 15:37 by Davo0101 Star rating in Epsom, surrey. 16 posts Send private message

 Thanks for the comments.

I definately see the differences and will be taking a look in January. 

I am prepered to invest money into a property but if there is options out there that does allow me to spend a lot less and still allows the same amount of usage then it is worth taking a look at. 

I will only be going 2 maybe 3 times a year anyway and if this option allows me to do that, then why not take a look. I have done some research in America and has been very successful out there. I have managed to read some independant articles that have reassured me of this. 

Timeshare also seems to be successful out there which suggests that the actual idea of time share/fractional ownership is not bad, its just beed misrepresented somewhere along the line in Europe. 

Its definately worth a look. 

Davo.





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19 Jun 2010 13:32 by CliveHornsby Star rating in Cheshire, UK. 4 posts Send private message

CliveHornsby´s avatar

 

There are many examples of people in the UK who have purchased property abroad with friends and/or family who are getting the advantages of fractional ownership, without the costs of buying outright as I have done.
 
There is a fundamental difference between timeshare and fractional ownership, but the difference is being clouded by management companies who are looking to make big profits from the average guy in the street. It these companies taking large management fees which are making fractional ownership look unattractive.
 
I do not know anyone with the funds to buy into my apartment in Javea, so I am actively looking for individuals like myself, who wish to share a property without the cost of full ownership or the effort required to rent it out commercially. By working together as small community we can minimise the running costs and the work involved in running the property is minimised.
 
A great place to get more information on fractional ownership is yours2share dot com who are based in the UK.
 

 

 



This message was last edited by CliveHornsby on 19/06/2010.

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20 Nov 2014 15:16 by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 975 posts Send private message

Hi All

Old thread but I guess anyone searching for shared ownership will find it.

I have just sold in Spain and I am determined that next time I will enjoy the advantages of shared ownership.

Anyone out there interested in sharing in Orihuela Costa (S of Torreveija) please contact me.

I am interested in ground floor flats in Punta Prima at present but am flexible.

Ted

 


This message was last edited by tteedd on 20/11/2014.



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