we're giving the UK the fingers up.Selling UK property before UK goes to the dogs

hi all

well you have all given me something to think about, so thanks for that, we wont be making a snap decision so you can all breathe a sigh of relief.thats why we are renting first to get a real feel for the place, and out of season when its dead,though we have decided uk is not for us.

kids welcome to tag along really but have told them job market in spain is just as bad and as non speak fluent spanish they are up against the locals etc.

think theyd be better in uk til they get to know what going to work is all about, they have a good education and are bright, just lazy its that simple. i never agreed with the new car thing either, the other half simply didnt want them getting into debt with car finance, so thought if theyd got cars that werereliable as new theyd be able to go where a job was not have to turn it down as its not on a bus route. can see why she did it, but i can remember having to get 3 buses to school, 2 buses and a train to my first job - good old days eh - taught you values etc etc. anyway i digress.

what you said about using our other investment places to chill in was a good idea (thanks) i hadnt even considered that, just thought of em as a business place, but yes thinking about it theres no reason why we couldnt use it ourselves for a bit, flit between the 2,yes its an option, as is sending the kids out there for a bit telling them if they want to stay more than a week they need to get jobs in bar or something to support themselevs. seems cruel but maybe today you have to be for the better.

growler : birmingham question was interesting, what do you know about birmingham property , is that an area that is giving a hint as to whats happening property wise.

well thats about it for now, draft particulars came in the post today so we have to look them over.wont be giving the place away tho, and yes we will have to address the kids living situation fairly, suppose the other option is to get a basic house/flat and if we decide to come back then they will hopefully be moving out with spouses/family and then we could move in.

why is life so complicated, you think you have just found the solution then the flippinggoalpost moves, not once but constantly.

still someone said, what dont kill you makes you stronger. question is, are they still alive ?

We'll  gravitatingsouth  I've got bad news for you, the UK may be going to the dogs but Spain’s been there and come back and going around for a second try. But at least if your going to be around the dogs than it might as well be where the sun (almost) always shines.

If your interest in all things Spain economy wise I suggest you check out Edward Hugh's excellent blog http://spaineconomy.blogspot.com/ warning thought you thought the UK was bad Spain is way way worse off (only saving grace in my opinion is the Euro which is preventing a currency run) according to him unemployment is expected to hit 20% next year and in my opinion house prices will drop 50% or more on the coast.

And if your going to be unemployed it might as well be somewhere were the weathers nice! (just don't move to Madrid it snowed today )

Rob,

sorry about the snow - bad luck - tho makes a change from the heat for a while at least.

quick question as you clearly are in the know.

as you can see we have changed our mind from costa de la luz simply as if we have to go via portugal faro due to flights from where we are etc then we may as well opt for portugal 100%, though as  the suns not there all  the time and there is the atlantic wind we jumped to south spain as its more sheltered, other reasons as well but thats a brief summery.

question is :murcia, is that any better or is property crashing there as well ?

i see taylor woodrow are offering 25% off key ready properties, whats your feelings on taylor woodrow es in light of uk/us losses

same advice for everyone, take your time and do your research. TJ often recomends renting for a while to get a feel for the area, nice thing you can take your time and find a place you like.

Perhaps gravitatingsouth should read this before he sets off for sunny Spain!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeffrandall/4177828/Staying-out-of-the-euro-has-spared-us-a-Spanish-style-catastrophe.html

thank you both for that, i have read it several times (trish) and that has really openend my eyes. got some serious thinking to do before we make it final probably will be a good thing that we are going to rent before cutting up the passport on spanish soil.

but if you have any info on murcia and what property is doing there that would be great.

Now that you've calmed down a little and everyone is taking you more seriously, this is becoming a very interesting thread. I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way as you do, and some interesting and important points are emerging.

I found the Telegraph article excellent reading, and whilst of course we understand that the British press loves a doom & gloom story about ex-pats who have been getting up everyone's noses with their gloating about a better life abroad, it does highlight the fact that the economic downturn is affecting everywhere. It's very easy to be oblivious to problems in other countries, (even if you live there sometimes) when you don't / can't follow the news due to the language barrier. The employment news from the UK is bleak indeed, but this article is a reminder that in fact it's worse elsewhere. Your kids may be ideally suited to the Spanish lifestyle and work ethic (get up late, do very little then have a rest), but if they do follow you out here, they can forget about gainful employment. Even with fluent Spanish, and even before the current downturn, even with their qualifications, they would have been lucky to find anything paying more than about €1200 a month - so you'd still be supporting them, no doubt!

It sounds as though you have done your calculations and know that you will be able to afford to live comfortably, even with the current exchange rate, but just as an example in the UK v Spain debate, if you plan to buy a car once in Spain, you had better put all the kids cars up for sale to fund it - there's a huge disparity currently between the two, both new and 2nd hand cars. Another thing you mentioned (and one that frequently comes up) was UK council tax. With the combined rates and community charges on my 2/2 apartment here, I reckon I pay as much as an average 3 bed semi pays in UK council tax. (and we still have pot holes and flooding streets!)

A couple of other points of yours:

"we were going to go to costa de la luz, infact we were 100% sure we would, but we decided not to simply as we would have had to keep going via faro" - why can't you use Jerez, or even Gibraltar?  And anyway, you're never going back, are you, so it doesn't really matter anyway?!

"to be honest the only real problem that might cause worry is the whole health care thing, we are still looking into that as a resident/x pat. but for now we still have our worldwide private plan/bupa so will be covered with that for a good while yet.though" - don't know about your BUPA plan, whether it covers you for limited periods of time abroad or not, but this is definitely something you need to know about. If you are under retirement age, you will not be entitled to free state healthcare, so will need to take out private cover (and pay full whack for any prescription meds). There's been plenty of discussion on this topic elsewhere on the forum, so do a search and read up on it.

Sorry, I can't tell you anything about Murcia region.

Anyway, good luck with your planning etc., especially with breaking the news to the kids!

We have been living in the Murcia region for about 6 months, so ask me some questions and I will see if I can answer them!  I do know that property prices have dropped on the coast, but we live inland and from what I can see things haven't changed much here.

Sue

 Interesting article (would love to hear TJs view on it) but I totally disagree, I think the Euro has saved Spains bacon. Denmark and Sweden both are considering joining the Euro becuase a run on the currency, Interest rates in both countries are several points higher than the ECB for the simple reason they needed to defend the currency. Finland joined becuase of a currency crisis nearly sank the economy. Like Roberto I agree with British love doom and gloom.

Gravitatingsouth, I've sent you a PM..

Gravitating South,

your post made me chuckle more than once, I think you might have a future as a writer!

I can see where your coming from re the UK and in many respects I totally agree with you. I dont think it will be long before we go to the supermarket with a wheel barrow full of cash to buy food, the way the economy and the Govt. is going.

I have 2 boys, 13 & 15 years, I dread the picture you have potentially painted with them living at home. Best I get the condom machine installed soon.

I have spent the last 2 years on holiday in Los Alcazares, Murcia and intend to retire out there in 3 years time. The area's house prices appear to have dropped by about 30-40K euros on properties for about 300K euros (resale on properties I have been looking at).

Good luck.

the uk has seen this happen before and will again.your husband will not feel any better from a move to spain as the person you buy from will probably be in negative equity any way its just you will benafit from it and lessen his burden, but i'm sure you will feel sorry for him and make up the short fall just to ease your mind on other peoples suffering.people who dive into buying property often regret it,do your homework and stop worrying about others and take care of your own abit of support and encouragement and they might supprise you.

Just in case you haven't heard prices are falling just as fast if not faster here so buying here your no futher ahead. So rent for a year or two and see if you like Spain and like learning another langugage. One of the reasons I stopped reading British papers (other than FT) was the rentless moaning, I think it's a British trait to moan an complain about how bad things have gottten. Canadians share that trait to a lessor degree.One postive is your moving when the pound is weak so unless the bottom dorps out the exchange rate shouldn't be a problem. Unless that is you buy euros only the see the rate reverse its self

 Hi Gravitatingsouth,

              Have to admit your first post did make me laugh, over the year's we have met a few like you, chuck the kid's out of the nest, it has become to comfortable and convienent and you would like to move on. You are not on your own here. We have been quite lucky I think}}}}} we have four  girls and one boy. All grown and left but a couple did come back a few times.      It is not easy sometimes trying to keep the peace I know, so I can sympathise with you.  But would you not be better of letting your house out in UK renting in Spain for a while just to see how you get on. Keeping options open for a while.

               I am afraid I am a bit cautious about things now especially as you get older, I know we are going through a recession in the UK, but would hate to see you jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

               Anyway good luck with what you decide.

          Rob we do not all moan about the doom and gloom just  a few.               

                        Pat

just to keep the humour going on this thread............

gravitatingsouth, the wife and I have done all our homework, we not only know the area that we want to buy in, we know the actual development and the block. The large double balcony, 2 bed, 2 bath luxury apartments can be bought from the developer for 399,000 euros, we have tracked a re-sale down at 248,000 euros. This is not the right time to buy, my guess is that we will pick one up for circa 200,000 euros when the pound has strengthened to say 1.30 and UK house prices start rising.  Actually they are nor really falling as there are hardly any for sale, but if you have to sell at a discount you will also buy at a discount, so what's the problem?

The euro zone is in for a very unpleasant surprise when it finally extracts it's head from up it's arse and starts to separate the wheat from the chaff. Greece is a basket case, Italy, Spain, Ireland and Portugal aren't that far behind. Germans are now refusing to accept euros not printed in Germany, what does that tell you? Spain is hiding in a single currency bubble that will eventually burst and expose the rot inside.

If we manage to buy at a good price we intend to do 2 months in Spain and 2 months in the UK, we don't at this point wish to offer ourselves up for sacrifice to the Spanish taxation system and draconion bureaucracy that appears to abound. Not everything in the UK is bad and conversely not everything in Spain is good. 

This message was last edited by crookesey on 1/15/2009.

Well said Crookesey.  You are right about the shortage of houses for sale in the UK, certainly in the South East. No bargains to be had at all!

The UK went to the dogs when they dropped all the border controls shortly after Labour got in, best of luck to you, last one out turn off the lights!!!

  YES have to agree Crookesey,  we try and do 3months in Spain and 3 months in UK, I must admit this time seems to have lasted ages due to the weather I think.   But I am not brave enough to burn all my bridges.

                        Pat 

I wish you good

We have been for sale now for about 18th months and prices continue to drop further but are still not moving.

We actualy thought we would be at the least spending our winters in spain by now.

But its not to be!

One good thing is it has give us time to think and we have changed our minds about a few things,like we will rent before we buy.

Good advice from friendly people on here has helped a great deal.