Warning! I do not recommend Ocean Estates

Absolutely true Smiley well according to the findings of the S. Times reporter who exposed Awful Estates, and I tend to believe them otherwise they would have been sued, also Mark Stucklin on www.spanishpropertyinsight.com has mentioned such figures before.

As for Juan Pazon, he can see this and follow it up now if he wants, unfortunately the Spanish regulators are slow and pathetic in cracking down on such scams.

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ATTN: WARNINGGIRL - A reply to your email posted Jan 18th

Ocean Estates are expensive? You mean 5-7% commission is not the norm on this coast? Get your facts straight before you start hammering companies such as Ocean who probably taught you all you know about the coast and real estate.

Don’t care for their clients and treat their staff like Sh*t? Your right, many fly-by sales girls/boys (probably such as yourself) do not care for clients after they get the sale and they then leave behind their trail, giving companies such as Ocean a bad name. 

I know many people and myself who have worked/work at Ocean for many years and have never heard anyone say they were treated like sh*t. In fact, the only people that tend to make those kinds of comments are the ones that were sh*t at there jobs and blames it on the company.

No money, no salaries? All real estate companies on this coast are going through a tough time at the moment and if your smart you cut costs in everyway possible, that does not mean the company "has no money"!

At this moment, not a single person from Ocean will say they have not been paid. I know for a fact (as you put it) that salaries were paid late, however, they were paid.

You just sound like a very bitter person.

From,

HAPPY STAFF!

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Ocean Estates are expensive? You mean 5-7% commission is not the norm on this coast? Get your facts straight before you start hammering companies such as Ocean who probably taught you all you know about the coast and real estate.

Ocean Estates are VERY expensive. They took 15% from our 30%  (according to the lawyer, recommended by your company AND the developer!!)
deposit ! They only admitted to 7%!!

Don’t care for their clients and treat their staff like Sh*t?

Can't speak for the staff, but I can say that is exactly how it is for the client..from experience!!

You just sound like a very bitter person.

There are many members of this club  that have had the misfortune to have anything to do with your company!!!

I wonder how long you will remain "Happy Staff"???...I guess until you don't get paid!

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/25/2007.

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/25/2007.

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Tish, the posting by SPY1 is a total load of bullshit, many Ocean Estates staff DID NOT receive their commissions at all, including Rik Nijs, Paul Rossiter, Ben Melia, Chris Dyson, and more according to Sarah Drane their ex marketing manager. Many were indeed treated like sh1t, including Hayley Nieve, and a few young sales girls were given the bonus of a bun in the oven by some of their harrassing male members, in fact, a senior sales manager was dismissed for sexual harrassment and then re-employed (because sales figures were down).

Some went on to start their own Agencies and didn't go to Court because of  possible recriminations against their agencies.

You're absolutely right about their exhorbitant commissions, in some cases as much as 30% added on to the sales price of new build. They also couldn't re-sell for their clients despite boasting that they re-sell 93% (in writing) of all their investors properties.

This Company as I've said before, have been exposed at least 5 times by both the S. Times and Mail on Sunday for all sorts of mis-selling dirty tricks, not once have they dared sue the S. Times, and, there are still moles within their offices coming out with yet more dirty washing.

So, Tish and others conned by them, don't listen to the rantings of some of their sales staff, they're plain lying as always.

 

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Says it all really about Ocean, read it through if you've time Tish and others, click on the links!!!

 

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14052-1260342,00.html

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1582327,00.html

There's more like that including their selling Land Grab property in Costa Blanca, and, mis-selling in Turkey etc. They daren't take on the S. Times who've really do their homework.

Avoid Ocean like the Plague.

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Scambuster, do you actually have anything recent to post regarding Ocean? So far we have had but a handful (or less) of people complain about Ocean and I know at least four purchasers who went through them who are actually happy with their services. Your links are at the least two years old and we've all read them - and Ocean weren't the only estate agents involved in certain sales, as is evident in one of your links regarding Alcaidesa! And, the other link you posted about the disgruntled former employee - well, we bought when she was actually employed with them and we didn't experience the hard sell tactics she obviously chose to employ!! One or two people can raise a hell of a lot of crap if they want to, but unfortunately those who don't have anything bad to raise really don't wish to bother either way! Aftersales service isn't really a factor to totally demolish the reputation of a company and, whilst they may have used hard sales tactics with some (have to say, not us, but then we weren't on a "weekend inspection visit"), that's the name of the game! They're sharks! Most of them are! I was ripped off in London nearly twenty years ago by a "lone agent" on a fixed fee (happily I'm grown up now!!). Why do estate agents have such a bad reputation!???!! I'm not saying people should be blatantly ripped off, but they should also take responsibility for their own investments, as I've said before. We bought (over three years ago, off plan) for the long term and, basically, would never have invested short term in the area (Costa del Sol) because it just wasn't feasible. At the end of the day, people have to be responsible in what they invest in and check it out independently - you wouldn't invest your life savings in an antique you didn't have any knowledge about, would you? Or would you just take the saleman's "advice" about it??? This thread is getting just a little bit contentious!

This message was last edited by Pitby on 1/27/2007.

This message was last edited by Pitby on 1/27/2007.

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Hi Pitby in essence I agree with you that people should take responsibility for their own actions. However a bone of contention that I would have (and I have had at least four clients who have experienced this so no doubt it was happening more) is that someone comes over here with a proposed budget of say 250,000€. They get taken to see several developments with prices starting at 100,000€ more. Then finally they get taken to see units at 250k. Surprisingly enough all of a sudden the apartment at 250k is not what they DESIRE any more. Fair enough people should be strong willed enough to stick to their guns over what they want as they know their budget but in the heady days there were stories of 20% per annum capital growth so people were generally lulled into a false sense of security. Again I agree people are in control of their own destiny but I have seen people get bowled over and they have literally fallen in love with the property that is 100k more than their budget and we live in a "got to have it" society. At times it was quite blatant and on more than one occasion I had people saying to me how can I get them to show me something in my price range? The big problem is that not everyone is as thorough as you are - yes they should be I agree! But some less scrupulous individuals will always try to exploit this "must have" emotion or indeed prey on people who believe everything they are told. If they didnt we would not have such a large surplus of property on the CDS as we speak.

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Why do so many people ASSUME everyone is an investor...out to make money. It seems that if you ARE an investor then it is fair game to get ripped off!  What about those of us that didn't go on an inspection trip or wear rose tinted glasses AND still had a brain in their head!! ??? Did we deserve to get ripped off?  I don't think so!

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/29/2007.

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Estate agents are only sharks they have no qualification as such only a smooth tongue. Are they any different from time share people who have plagued us in the past.? We need them? Sadly we do but must bear in mind they are only salesmen and in some cases women. Keep that in mind when you listen to there smooth talk they are not on your friends only trying to get as much of your hard earned cash as they can regardless of the consequences         these are the thought of cynic whose been had many times and is still falling for the occasional scam

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In reply to haydngi comments regarding "all estate agents".

Being an agent myself i find that very offensive,with over 15 years experience in the uk and three more here i am very proud of my company and the job that we all do here.

We work on our reputation and i would allow anyone to to ask our clients how they are treated both initially and through to completion.

As for Qualifications i have several from the NAEA and worked very hard to get them!

You have obviously been mistreated by someone to have such a poor opinion of estate agents in general but dont forget that there are some of us that are still honest and get great job satisfaction from customer care.

Anyone can be an estate agent but not everyone is aware of what the job actually entails!

you do not actually need a smooth tongue if you find people what they are looking for,the art is listening and not trying to sell something but find something.

i would also like to say that contrary to your opinion most of my clients have become friends and regulary return to our shop either on business or on personal terms

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haydnj, I think you must have had a very bad experience buying in Spain (as have many others).  Yes there are some (many) cowboy agents but there are also some very good ones.    A lot of agents set themselves up a few years ago when there was a real boom here, but a lot of these "fly by night" agents have gone now.  Reputation does count for a lot more now and exposure, such as on sites like these, means people can choose a good agent much more easily now.

Saying that, nothing beats a recommendation...usually.

There are always good and bad apples!

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Hi Tish Red Star Belgrade is right - you will note from the posts I have made my opinion in general. Nobody deserves to get ripped off but you have had a dire experience with Ocean as have many others as borne out by the Sunday Times articles.Nonetheless there are some highly ethical agents here who do look after clients. I do not know who RSB is but I assume he/she is from behind the old Iron Curtain or perhaps has a warped sense of footbal fantasia however as with most things in life as RSB says there are good and there are bad. You clearly feel wronged by Ocean and in your position it is probably totally justified but there are still some people around with ethics - I add that I have never been involved in real estate sales or purchases (except personal) in my life.

This message was last edited by Smiley on 1/29/2007.

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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/16/2007.

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Hi Pitby,

 

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14052-1922409_2,00.html   Dec 11th 2005, barely a year old and up to their usual tricks but this time in Turkey.

http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/spanish_property_articles_ST_marbella_scandal_090406.htm

April 2006, the company who sold this couple was Ocean Estates, Fact!

Another article due out this year, wait for it.

A leopard doesn't change it's spots, anyone who'se bought from them in the last year or so, has overpaid because of their huge added on commission.

Paul Rossiter claimes he was owed 80,000 euros comm, Nijs claims over 60,000 euros, both good staff members, a Company that is late paying it's staff, or doesn't pay their commission is either in trouble financially, or salting it away from the revenue if they need to do a moonlight, either way they're not worth a light.

 

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Dear all

We are amazed!! We bought our finca through Ocean Estates in December 2006 through their Almeria office. I hesitate to mention the sales person - simply because we do not yet have permission to name names - but we are so impressed. There was no pressure selling; the after sales (so far) has been excellent. This sales person has worked for Ocean for about 2 years.

Sorry if this is against the thread but I can only report on our experience.

Kevin

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Smiley, I know that not all agents should be tarred with the same brush,that is unfair. This thread is about OE and I have to say that I will put the boot in any time I can as far as OE is concerned!!! They deserve all the bad publicity that they get.

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/29/2007.

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/29/2007.

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was I a little hard on the sensitive agents? who sells the illegal builds ?who pro miss a completion date that are almost always months , often years late?who drive you to a site in a merc or bm ? an honest estate agent!! . they are no better in the u.k.hiking up the house prices . don't tell me its for our benefit and the agents , mortgage brokers solicitor and the like just happen to be there and the commission they take has nothing to do with it .I may upset one or two but the cap will certainly fit most of them

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Attn: Scambuster

If you would have read my email correctly instead of just obviously getting angry and using bad language, I did not mention anything about commissions, I was merely stating to Warninggirl that all of us staff had been paid basic salaries.

Since you have decided to bring it up, you are saying that these people (who you have chosen to name) have not received commissions going back now what must be 2years ago.

Well Mr Scambuster, if this was the case, why in fact did Rik Nij (of course baring in mind according to you he is angry as he is owed commissions) re-join Ocean Estates in Jan 2006 as our sales director?? Chris Dyson was also considering coming back sometime ago but chose to leave Spain instead.

Im sure all these people know you are spaeking on their behalf do they? I dont think so.

As Pitby said, can you actually talk about or find something that does not date back 2years.

 

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Attn. SPY1

Ocean's Turkish tricks were reported just over a year ago, (not 2 years), the other report was April 06 (although it refers to earlier)  I was asked for reports under 2 years, the Irish TV programme was aired late last year.

Every year for the last 5, there has been at least one damning report about Ocean Estates sales tactics in the media.

Last year, Your Move one of the largest UK estate agents decided to DROP Ocean as their preferred overseas property agent due to the CONSTANT adverse publicity.

There will be another story this year about them.

Out of all the dodgy agents overseas esp. in Spain, only Ocean are reported about annually.

Nijs certainly claimed he was owed that amount, so if he returned, his own business must have been poor and he's no better than Tobin who was re-instated for what was mentioned earlier.

Chris Dyson wisely chose not to return to the den in Spain then?

And for all we know Pitby could be a ringer since he defends Ocean all the time, but it's a good job he's bought for the long term, because short term it's a no no for profit.

Do you still tell clients that your Directors/Managers have all bought on the same developments as you're trying to push them into? Do you still say 'we will cherry pick the best plots'? Do you still pretend that you can re-sell before completion? Do you still show developments where clients are expected to pay some 'B' money? Do you still recommend DODGY lawyers, one an ex-timeshare fraudster( who went to Thailand), one went to jail etc? Do you still show developments without Building Licences? Could go on and on.

As Warninggirl said, and Tish 'don't trust Ocean Estates', they have shafted 100's of innocent buyers over the years in Spain, and now operating in emerging markets.

Well done for getting your 'basic salaries' paid, enjoy it while it lasts, the leopard can't change it's spots.

 

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Scambuster, this is the last message I shall post on this thread, as you are getting a bit too personal for my taste. I am female, by the way, and am no "ringer" for Ocean. We are just one of many who have had no problem buying through them, to date! I have just put forward a side of those who haven't had any issues with them. Having worked in law for many years, I am just someone who likes to see facts put forward, not just stories. Funny that Ocean still appear to be in business though, and for all their sins, have they been brought to justice, any prosecutions on the horizon????? I'd be interested to read that headline when and if it happens.

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