Reoccurring Floods

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21 Feb 2020 17:49 by Barney1 Star rating in Orihuela city. 15 posts Send private message

With recent flood events in the UK and Costa Blanca Spain, my Spanish neighbours Hilda and Vera have told me these floods will now occur on an annual basis due to climate change. I am not sure where they have got their information from and if it is accurate. They also say flood damage is now excluded from all insurance policies.  

Is it possible to get sand bags delivered to your home in Orihuela and what can you expect to pay?





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21 Feb 2020 20:18 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

Found this scientific article (Sept 2019), which might be of interest to your more general queries, as it makes reference to " incentivise risk reduction by policyholders which lowers vulnerability"..... so you taking your own measures might be looked upon favourably, but obviously governments would need to be proactive to ensure that flood insurance schemes adapt to increasing flood risk.....

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959378018306022

"Abstract

Flood risk will increase in many areas around the world due to climate change and increase in economic exposure. This implies that adequate flood insurance schemes are needed to adapt to increasing flood risk and to minimise welfare losses for households in flood-prone areas. Flood insurance markets may need reform to offer sufficient and affordable financial protection and incentives for risk reduction. Here, we present the results of a study that aims to evaluate the ability of flood insurance arrangements in Europe to cope with trends in flood risk, using criteria that encompass common elements of the policy debate on flood insurance reform. We show that the average risk-based flood insurance premium could double between 2015 and 2055 in the absence of more risk reduction by households exposed to flooding. We show that part of the expected future increase in flood risk could be limited by flood insurance mechanisms that better incentivise risk reduction by policyholders, which lowers vulnerability. The affordability of flood insurance can be improved by introducing the key features of public-private partnerships (PPPs), which include public reinsurance, limited premium cross-subsidisation between low- and high-risk households, and incentives for policyholder-level risk reduction. These findings were evaluated in a comprehensive sensitivity analysis and support ongoing reforms in Europe and abroad that move towards risk-based premiums and link insurance with risk reduction, strengthen purchase requirements, and engage in multi-stakeholder partnerships."

Perhaps others close to your vicinity can advise on the more specific query if sandbags are available and at what cost, or even if they have proved effective or necessary, or where applicable if some have found their own measures were unsustainable without local authorities taking greater action themselves.

 

 


This message was last edited by ads on 21/02/2020.



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22 Feb 2020 08:59 by Barney1 Star rating in Orihuela city. 15 posts Send private message

Interesting if you can understand any of it. I always thought insurance companies existed to get your money and never pay out, or at least try every trick in the book not to pay out. I do not see any insurance companies touching flood risk properties with a barge pole.

The way forward will be sandbags and a dingy, I've never seen anything else.





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22 Feb 2020 11:16 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

The growth of flood incidents and how best to respond appears a science in itself unfortunately whether people understand it or not, as each area will have its own specific circumstance and yes your concern about insurance companies and how they react in these instances is understandable. The question then becomes is there now an equal responsibility of owners and local authorities and government and insurance companies to respond to these changes?

 For instance what are people's expectations from Government and Local Authorities if the infrastructure is not geared up for increasing incidents of this magnitude in Spain? Is there a significant problem in your area? Is there a problem with the current drainage system in your area and who is expected to pick up the bill for this?


How are the locals responding and dealing with this to date? Are they calling for better infrastructure, or for insurance companies to seek out solutions with Government and owners ( as the article implies re public private partnerships) or are they happy to rely upon sandbags and the like when required? But then what happens if these individual owners measures to respond prove insignificant?

Many questions going forward I'm afraid and perhaps sadly not just a question of sandbag provision.

 





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22 Feb 2020 12:50 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

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Insurance companies are commercial business’s run for profit, their first priority and probably their only priority will be to exit as far as possible from the flood claims business.

This whole excessive flood situation can only be dealt with by better and improved infrastructure along with a government compensation fund. All of this will have to be funded by the taxpayer one way or another, because contra to general opinion the government does not have a money printing press.

It does seem strange that floods now seem to be a worldwide problem and housing continues to be built today on know flood risk land, and that includes Spain and the UK. Seems money and greed rules.devil



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22 Feb 2020 12:59 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

For the UK dump the high speed rail line that hardly anyone wants and spend the money saved....BILLIONS....On proper flood defences, call the Dutch in, they know a thing or two about keeping water back.





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22 Feb 2020 13:23 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

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Quite right Baz, but those in none flood areas will always have the I’m alright Jack attitude. They are more concerned with a first class day out on HS2 to meadow hall.  Tough luck for those with sewage floating through their homes.   



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22 Feb 2020 13:29 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

Agreed re the need to reassess spending priorities in the UK and ensure wherever possible that existing brown field sites that are not deemed to be flood relief are used to accommodate necessary housing, following remediation, ( emphasis on necessary)  but as ever, it's not so simple unfortunately, as population growth that has occurred has to be accommodated now and all measures to re-assess such factors have to be taken into account in the real world ( including sensible and realistic measures to curtail areas where population growth is unsustainable or out of a country's control). Otherwise you're just chasing your tail, so to speak.

Its no doubt going to be a wide combination of factors to consider as each country has its own specific circumstance, but yes it's always good to retain an open mind to expert building knowledge in regions that have already gained experience in this regard, but again it has to be seen to be sustainable and cost effective, and here lies the problem of how this is managed without corrupt influences that have hidden self interests undermining the whole process.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 22/02/2020.



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22 Feb 2020 14:10 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

I have no idea if Spain has what we here call flood plains, which are exactly that, it rains, the rain seeps onto these plains.

But excuse's are a total wast of breath, one council built many house's on a known flood plain, then built a pumping station next to it running 24/7 to drain the land 24/7, 

You may have seen on the TV news about a flyover being taken down in Chelmsford Essex due to corrosion and structal damage, this was built on an old flood plain area, the fields around it are flood plains, now they have built a new lower style bridge almost next to it, over flood plains once again.

Our house building programme is out of control, here they even build on and over empty sand pits.

Watching these people flooded out of homes is worse then heart breaking, and some of these area's haven't had the massive house bulding going on, so the water is getting pushed from other area's, try getting someone with a flooded home understanding that.





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22 Feb 2020 14:23 by johnmcmahon Star rating. 301 posts Send private message

a flood plain is a low,flat area of land on to which a river overflows when it's carrying an increased amount of water. All river valleys have them and they get wider when a river encounters flat land usually nearer the sea.





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22 Feb 2020 14:26 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

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How can any proper honest planning and control be effective when as you say ‘’corrupt influences that have hidden self interests undermining the whole process.’’ Do the corrupt haves , really give a toss about flood victims? Was Harry and Megan’s spare home flooded with sewage?

The normal working man is treated as an idiot and his pocket dipped on ever occasion by the tax authorities to further enrich the haves. When said working man needs desperate help he becomes something under the shoe of the haves.


This message was last edited by Kavanagh on 22/02/2020.

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22 Feb 2020 14:32 by ads Star rating. 4012 posts Send private message

It's highly concerning and without political finger pointing this appears to have been failure from successive governments to address many underlying concerns associated with effective forward planning and controls and REGULATION of planning authorities who have turned blind eyes to all manner of uncomfortable realities.

It's all too easy to say population growth in the UK doesn't impact  however, so the start point has to be a sustainable program, but alongside that there must be greater vision to tackle the flood realities here and now, and ensure a planning system is fit for purpose, properly regulated, with sustainable building controls to adequately accommodate for changing weather patterns. 

A tall order but essential that longer term solutions are reviewed from as wide a perspective as possible. In other words, don't resolve one problem by shifting the problem elsewhere.

P.s

It's of little benefit to keep saying these aspects are impossible to control...we all need to focus on positive ways forward and in that process get involved, be more proactive in planning issues and controls. Don't keep  moaning and leaving it up to others...  be proactive and use the existing systems to voice opinions at a local level and higher government levels. But in a way that looks to the whole and not just from a narrow perspective.

We've all had enough of the negative rhetoric and finger pointing which does little other than to further alienate and divide, instead of getting on with finding good solutions and striving for progress.

It's called strategic planning and climate change is calling for ever more effective strategic planning.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 22/02/2020.


This message was last edited by ads on 22/02/2020.



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22 Feb 2020 18:31 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 930 posts Send private message

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** EDITED - Inciting**

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 22/02/2020 22:22:00.

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