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16 Apr 2016 12:24 PM by noddy Star rating. 150 posts Send private message

Question for lawyers/ administrators.

I own in a community which has 5 ajining communities who all belong to an Entity, set up several years ago by the town Halls to pass the maintenance of the roads etc to the properties.

One community has over 50% of the owners. At a recent Entity AGM the president voted supposedly on behalf of all his owners meaning that if this is legal, the rest of us have no say.

The community presidents , years ago were elected to the entity commitee to represent their owners who mainly live in the uk and get no information about the Entity. One president actually got his community owners approval to vote on their behalf at an agm but as he only has 10% of the owners, he is in the minorority.

My question is... is it legal that a president can just assume he has automatic proxy from his community owners. At the moment he has chosen his own entity president whoo the administrator likes so is siding with him at the moment.

A couple of us feel that he didnt actually get the most votes as he should only have a couple of votes against 60 for the so called 'runner up'

The community statutes seem to support my opinion although the entity statutes are a bit ambiguous.

Sorry for the long posting. look forward to informed replies.

Regards

N





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17 Apr 2016 9:02 PM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1594 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

Not a lawyer or administrator but a recent member of an Entidad Board.

Entidad is set up to look after the interests of the Town Hall and is set up by the Town Hall and the developer by electing a Board and an Administrator and is responsible for areas not covered by each Community.

Entidads are not covered by Horizontal Property Law like Communities but they should have statutes and bye laws and an AGM, initial one of which should invite ALL owners and elect a Board on one person one vote basis with proxies being allowed to all owners provided fees are up to date.

No one can represent any other owner unless they are in possession of a proxy.

suggesting you can vote on behalf of your Community is illegal and challenge able.

Proxies given to another owner should be declared and shown in each AGM minutes which can be challenged up to 30 days after circulation.

Each owner within the Entidad should be already assigned a coefficient based on square metreage like their own Community and each owner will be subject to 2 different fees, Community and Entity. 

Each owner is permitted one vote but on some occasions total coefficients can be a deciding factor.

As an owner, you and like minded owners can ask the Administrator to justify all financial and business decisions.

Hopefully other contributors will offer professional advice but Entidads are rare.





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18 Apr 2016 11:20 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9364 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Noddy:

I am answering your question below in bold green:

My question is... is it legal that a president can just assume he has automatic proxy from his community owners

No he cannot. Check on corresponding sections in this guide: Attendance to the General Meeting. Appointment needs to be express, never implict

http://issuu.com/mariadecastro/docs/ley_de_propiedad_horizontal_tras_re/3?e=3739526/5435899


www.saferent.takelegal.com
www.takelegal.com
www.costaluzlawyers.es
www.wemovetospain.com

 


This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 18/04/2016.

_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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18 Apr 2016 7:09 PM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1594 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

I totally agree with Maria's comment, that NO ONE can assume proxies without physical evidence, similar to Community Law.

A useful document regarding Communities and voting laws, but Maria are Entidads not governed by separate law to HPA?





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15 Aug 2018 4:24 PM by noddy Star rating. 150 posts Send private message

We did challenge it, and insisted on a legai interpretation. Amazingly !, the feedback was that a community president can just assume votes... this was supported by the administrator who at the time acted as administrator for all the communities as well hence is doing very nicely thank you !

Recently ( anther 2 years and again the same scenarionat this years AGM, hence the same guy has another 2 years.

IT would be good to this this rule actually written down where Entities are involved.

Finally a small point, our entity statutes do relate to individual ' members' but als refers to the total coefficients/ quotas of each separate community.

It just feels like it is a case of which interpretation one takes where as it should be black and white like it is for communities.

Regards

 

Noddy





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17 Aug 2018 8:25 PM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1594 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

You would have to get together with owner owners to legally challenge this obvious corrupt assumption of Power.

Yes Entities are made up of coefficient and quotas just like a Community but they are NOT governed by HPA.

Should not be difficult to seek an alternative legal opinion, but then you have to challenge the status quo.





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20 Aug 2018 8:18 PM by acer Star rating. 1465 posts Send private message

This seems to be an extraordinarily presumptious President who believes he can ignore the HPA and trample over the legal rights of owners. 

The law makes the AGM the decision making vehicle of the urbanisation and to be valid the proposal would have to be tabled, agreed and minuted at an AGM.

I don't understand his motive.



_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



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20 Aug 2018 8:41 PM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1594 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

Point of order.

President is certainly trampling over owners Legal rights but I still believe Entities are not governed by HPA.

Ours certainly isn’t.

I still think alternative lawyers could challenge this abuse of power.





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20 Aug 2018 8:41 PM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1594 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

Point of order.

President is certainly trampling over owners Legal rights but I still believe Entities are not governed by HPA.

Ours certainly isn’t.

I still think alternative lawyers could challenge this abuse of power.





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21 Aug 2018 5:31 PM by acer Star rating. 1465 posts Send private message

Perhaps I didn't put the point too well - it's that the President is completely out of order by making the grossly misplaced assumption that he can take away the owners rights under the HPA.

But I say that with no knowledge of any legislation on Entities and assume that there is nothing new that overrides the HPA.

Encountering Presidents of all nationalities who let the power go to their heads is far too common!



_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



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22 Aug 2018 9:54 AM by lobin Star rating. 254 posts Send private message

I am assuming by Entities you are referring to Entidad Urbanística de Conservación.  In Spanish we call them E.U.C.'s as the word Entities usually refer to any entity, association, company or community,

 These entities have nothing to do with the HPA and are certainly not regulated by them. An E.U.C. can exist even for one family houses that are not regulated by the HPA when there are no areas or installations owned in common by several houses.  They are regulated by Urban Laws and regulations and are started by Town Halls when they want to share and regulate the maintenance of public things like roads, sewage, lighting and other services which are normally provided by Town Halls.  In their Boards, there is always a representative of the Town Halls. E.U.C.'s are in charge of things like for example, deciding when repairs and maintenance need to be done to public areas that serve an urbanization but are not owned by the communities (as in this latter case, the community would take charge and the HPA would certainly apply).

Each individual owner within the communities (when there are communitites being served by the public installations) or outside communities but whose property is being served by the public installations is considered a member of the E.U.C. The laws and regulations do not clearly establish how to delegate their votes in case of General Meetings.  It is, then up to the statutes of the E.U.C. to regulate voting rights and other internal organizational issues.

I believe that Maria de Castro in her reply to the OP did not realize the owner was speaking of an E.U.C. and not of a community regulated by the HPA perhaps due to the use of the word Entity which, as stated earlier, can also be used to refer to a community of owners because it is a word of general use.  I believe this because the links she put refer all to communities.  E.U.C. are regulated by the Urban Laws as they refer to pubic areas not owned by owner but of service to owners.

If the statutes of the particular E.U.C. are not clear about representation of owners, it is not possible or legal for the President of a community to assume the representation of owners in that community.  However, it is debatable where the community has voted by majority to give this powers to the President, whether this resolution of the community binds those owners that did not vote in favour of such resolution.  Having said that, in an E.U.C. where a particular community has a much larger number of owners than other communities (as seem to be this case), it is lets say, understandable that the President probably knowing that his owners are not going to bother to attend E.U.C. meetings (as in practice very few people attend) wants to assume the representation of those owners that do not attend the E.U.C. to enable his community to have more weight in resolutions of the E.U.C. than other communitites with a lower number of owners.

Obviously this is understandable but quite possibly not legal and very likely to be successfully challenged by owners in disagreement.  However, where owners do not want their President to represent them before the E.U.C., the easiest way out is not to challenge it in Court as this would take a lot of time and money but rather to attend the meeting themselves or appoint one of them as representative by proxy of the others. Their personal attendance or express proxy on behalf of another owner would certainly override the general representation the President would like to undertake.





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23 Aug 2018 12:36 AM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1594 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

The other point to make is that EUC Boards are not made up of different Community Presidents or representatives.

A EUC or Entidad Board is elected by ALL members but could end up being members all from one Community.

As you rightly say, it is set up by the Town Hall and Promoter to manage parts of a resort NOT under Community control and ensures the funding is from owners rather than the Town Hall. Neat really.





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