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06 Apr 2016 4:06 PM by aleblancsmith Star rating. 11 posts Send private message

I bought an old apartment some years ago and have had  some work done on it since then.  I was misled by the builder (English) over what licences were required and am now threatened with a large fine. I accept that I am liable for the external work but the major part of the fine refers to internal alterations.  These consised of new wood floors, new doors, new kitchen, new bathroom, fitted cupboards, air conditioning etc. An English friend who lives part of his life in Spain, says that T should not be fined on any of the internal work.  Any comments please!

Regards





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06 Apr 2016 5:36 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2264 posts Send private message

I have no doubt I am well wrong on this but I have been under the impression that to do any work on any house in Spain you have to get permission, to be fully legal, (No doubt some cost for this is involved so thats probably why)  of some sort or the other, inside and out, outside comes under a different set of, say planning rules and regs, inside they just want to know about any work and perhaps then they okay it.

We all know everyone does numerous alterations on just about everything and don't get caught, I own house's in Spain, best I don't go into what I have had done, I also tend not to ask these questions because you might get the answer you don't want to hear.

Sounds like you are the unlucky one and got caught somehow. 





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06 Apr 2016 6:10 PM by MillyC Star rating. 22 posts Send private message

As far as I am aware you need a 'Small works license' for things as small as a new window or putting tiles on your floor. Best advice would be to not take any chances and seek legal advice before anything is done, (From a solicitor, not a builder)....You can never be too careful... Apparently when the building trade was booming you could get away with pretty much anything but now the industry is not as strong the local town halls are constantly looking for ways in which to get some money in their coffers so will be on the look out for any building infringments..... As I said, always seek proper advice....





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06 Apr 2016 6:18 PM by acer Star rating. 1463 posts Send private message

There seem to be several versions of this law and different interpretations between the 17 regions. 

The 4 year rule seems to apply in some Regions, but not others.   Thie gist of this is that if the change/extension is not questioned within 4 years there's no problem.  But the onus is on the property owner to prove that it has been in existance for this length of time. 

I believe that in the Valencia Region they've just moved the goalposts - see an earlier thread http://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-19965.aspx

I'm in the Murcia region where I believe they don't require licences for internal work.  But apparently they use google earth to detect changes externally.  A lot of expats don't bother with licences as they are difficult to obtain and rely on the 4 year rule.

But you've got to wonder how the authorities can begin to know about changes to the inside of a building without an extraordinary inspection and record keeping regime.  To me the prospect of this is incredible, surely the law is totally impractical.  But I do not understand the purpose of the law, perhaps it's Health & Safety related?

This probably doesn't help you aleblancsmith, but if you say which Region is your concern Maria may give you specific information for you and throw some light on the subject.

 



_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



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06 Apr 2016 8:02 PM by aleblancsmith Star rating. 11 posts Send private message

Thanks acer.  We also are in Murcia region.  It is Cartagena Council who are controlling this issue. We do have a lawyer handling this matter but any additional information is always helpful.  This proposed fine originally came up last year.  However a few months back we received a letter saying that as they had taken too long to follow the matter up the case was being dropped.  Celebration all round!  However, to our horror the case has now  been reinstated. We have been advised that the Council can do this once but if another year goes by the case has to be dropped.  It is very difficult to understand how Spanish law works.





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06 Apr 2016 9:24 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2264 posts Send private message

But you've got to wonder how the authorities can begin to know about changes to the inside of a building without an extraordinary inspection and record keeping regime.  To me the prospect of this is incredible, surely the law is totally impractical.  But I do not understand the purpose of the law, perhaps it's Health & Safety related?

As it is an apartment who knows for sure who lives in the same block, who see's everything that goes in and out the front door, maybe a neighbour got fed up with the noise, or got a bit jealous because they couldn't do what others were doing. 

As for the Council wanting to know what was going on perhaps it was thought that the tenant might take down an internal wall....It is an apartment after all.





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07 Apr 2016 4:18 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

I know that in Andalucía at least, so probably throughout Spain, the rules vary from municipality to  municipality. That means that even two adjoining municipalities can be different.  It is quite simple to ask in the building dept. of the local town hall what they require.

I have friend who was fined about £300 for re-tiling his kitchen without a minor works licence, whereas in the adjoining town no licence for such work was required.





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07 Apr 2016 8:54 PM by nitram Star rating in castalla. 178 posts Send private message

The 4 year rule is no longer changed last year to 15 years





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08 Apr 2016 12:53 PM by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

Acer- I lived in Murcia for 14 years, and my understanding was that licences applied to both internal and external work

its probably to stop people with few DIY skills  knocking down internal walls etc

what about. making flats in the under build, licences  definitely required to make rooms there.

In fact I was told by a surveyor that the under build should not be used for living in, but is totally ignored, so in theory, if they checked there would be enough money in fines to do all the work required on Camposol!





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08 Apr 2016 4:02 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

As an aside I wonder if all of the friends that get quoted on various threads are called Tony

We all seem to have one



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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