occupation licence

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14 Nov 2015 12:41 by bricer Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

We are the first tennants to occupy a town house in Manilva,when the landlord applied for an occupation licence would he need to supply water and electric Boletins?





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14 Nov 2015 12:55 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Certainly electric, not sure about water. If it was a brand new property the developer would of done it



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15 Nov 2015 14:02 by acer Star rating. 1400 posts Send private message

Team GB is it not better to say the developer "should have done it".



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15 Nov 2015 14:18 by ads Star rating. 4022 posts Send private message

Has the occupation licence been provided in the first place?





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15 Nov 2015 14:22 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

Bricer  ..........water and electric Boletins ............

I believe they are certificates from each of the installers  to say the installations are in accordance with the regulations.  One needs such a cert to get those services connected, thus I do not believe a property must have those services contracted in order to get the first occupancy licence.





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15 Nov 2015 15:03 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Acer, maybe I should of used 'should' smiley I used 'would' because without a FOL it is technically and llegaly impossible for the services to be contracted.- bricer being a tenant, so assuming living there and therefore must have them.

Of course we all know what  "it is technically and llegaly impossible" means in Spain smiley



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15 Nov 2015 15:16 by ads Star rating. 4022 posts Send private message

Bricer, what was the reason for your question? If you are living there presumably you have services already provided, or is this a wrong assumption? 





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16 Nov 2015 17:29 by windtalker Star rating. 1719 posts Send private message

What's a boletins  in English you mite get some answers





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16 Nov 2015 17:54 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Boletins are inspections/reports that cerifiy that a installation meets with the relevent regulations. You will know all about them Windtalker, if as I seem to remember you are a plumber in the UK. Bricer has had answers, we are waiting for he/she to come back



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16 Nov 2015 19:43 by windtalker Star rating. 1719 posts Send private message

Why would anybody that's renting ,presumably short term want to get involved in local building regulation's .





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16 Nov 2015 23:23 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Why would anybody that's renting ,presumably short term want to get involved in local building regulation's .

I suspect to gain ammunition in a tenant landlord dispute over non performing services/appliances



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17 Nov 2015 20:41 by bricer Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Thanks for all your answers,i do have a dispute with the landlord over who should pay for the boletin,i thought he should have one after taking possesion of the property from the developer

 





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17 Nov 2015 22:49 by ads Star rating. 4022 posts Send private message

To act as reassurance maybe this aspect (and your rental contract) should be checked by a reputable independent lawyer?





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18 Nov 2015 00:02 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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bricer

I'm assuming then that a boletin had to be paid for ? maybe to reconnect services or because a new contract was needed in your name. If this is the case then it should have been agreed between you both who was paying for it prior to signing the rental contract and maybe a clause inserted into the standard rental contract to reflect this. Until the actual problem is known it's difficult to comment, to many assumtions.

After saying that it would be reasonable to expect a landlord to market a rental property as 'ready to go' with all utilities connected



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18 Nov 2015 17:43 by acer Star rating. 1400 posts Send private message

To my way of thinking there should not be any doubt that the landlord is responsible to make all the arrangements and to pay all the costs for the boletin and any other similar costs that you incur when a property is first connected. 

As a property owner I would not dream of asking a tenant to do so.  It's truly absurd.  This is just another example of the hazards of renting in Spain.  The locals just don't seem to "play fair" and rely on the absence of any meaningful regulatory bodies or accepted code of practice.



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18 Nov 2015 18:04 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

 I know that some owners insist that the tenant (obviously only long lets) has the utility services in their name so that they are responsible for the bills. If they remain in the owner’s name  and the tenant does not pay, does a flit etc. Then it’s down to the owner.  It that case.   If a boletín is required to make the new contact than it would seem it’s down to the person making the contact,





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18 Nov 2015 19:35 by ads Star rating. 4022 posts Send private message

As a property owner I would not dream of asking a tenant to do so.  It's truly absurd.  This is just another example of the hazards of renting in Spain.  The locals just don't seem to "play fair" and rely on the absence of any meaningful regulatory bodies or accepted code of practice. “

“If utility services remain in the owner’s name and the tenant does not pay, does a flit etc. Then it’s down to the owner. “

Looking to the wider picture, shouldn't such responsibilities be clearly defined within a rental contract from the outset, or is the inference that the contract is not worth the paper it's written on, as there is no swift legal redress in place (via a small claims court?) that can be activated when either party breaches a rental contract?

Or might it be that the lawyer or agent has not acted with due diligence from the outset to ensure a legal rental contract has been established (without abusive clauses)? 

All manner of possible scenarios sadly spring to mind given the abuses that appear to be prevalent in Spain..... but the bottom line is that without effective mechanisms in place to gain swift legal redress against injustices or effective regulatory bodies are in place to inhibit professional negligence/malpractice, then rental contracts (as with purchase contracts) will sadly be perceived as ineffective tools to inhibit abusive behaviour. (i.e. they will be perceived as a tool to be abused by those with hidden agendas in full knowledge that accountability is either prohibitively lengthy or costly to defend, or protectionist of “bad” professionals within the Spanish real estate industry.)

I fear that only when these mechanisms to effectively ensure timely and fair accountability are fully established will trust in the rental and purchase sectors improve in Spain.

Here’s hoping…..

 

 





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15 Feb 2020 15:33 by fleurnoir Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

Looking to the wider picture, shouldn't such responsibilities be clearly defined within a rental contract from the outset, or is the inference that the contract is not worth the paper it's written on, as there is no swift legal redress in place (via a small claims court?) that can be activated when either party breaches a rental contract?





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16 Feb 2020 08:42 by acer Star rating. 1400 posts Send private message

They certainly should - but it's the same old story.  Spain is years behind the expectations you will have if you come from northern Europe.  In the UK there is the AST (Assured Shorthold Tenancy) lease which is virtually mandatory with a standard wording, so largely, everyone should know what's required.

In Spain it's often too many smiles and niceties and not enough factual written details.  The so called "professionals" do not do their job.  The Letting Agent should check all these basics before a tenancy is agreed, but invariably they rely on the landlord and are more interested in taking your money. 



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16 Feb 2020 09:19 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1009 posts Send private message

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Until Spain has an efficient justice system any slap dash carry on will do, and that applies to everything.



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