Complaints book/Hoja de reclamaciones

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12 Aug 2015 11:18 PM by theline Star rating. 83 posts Send private message

Hi,

I am currently having some issues with a Spanish registered company (registered in Andalucia) who owe me some money and are now refusing to answer my emails.

I am planning to denounce this company if I do not get a response (and my money back) soon, but first I'd like to clarify a couple of things first. The complaints procedure I've followed in the past has been using the official complaints book (Hoja de reclamaciones) which is surprisingly effective, and this is probably the initial path I am exploring. However, before doing so, I would like to ask if all companies in Andalucia are required to produce this book, or is it just certain business types (bars, restaurants, utility companies etc)? The company in question is a property holding company (officially "Compraventa de bienes inmobiliarios por cuenta propia").

Another question I have, is that if this company still refuse to respond to my email correspondance when I request the complaints book from them, what should the next step be? Should I go directly to policia local, consumo, the town hall etc? 

Thanks





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13 Aug 2015 2:45 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

The Line   The complaints procedure I've followed in the past has been using the official complaints book (Hoja de reclamaciones) which is surprisingly effective.

Glad to see others have the same view on the Complaints forms as I do.

Even the police must have Hojas de Reclamación.

If you ask for the form and don't get it, call the Policia Local.   They should attend, demand the forms and if not produced issue an on the spot fine and close the establishment

On a few occasions Ihave assisted people at the National Police Office when they have asked for the forms. On the first occasion, when the police said they did not have the forms, I asked if the complaint should call the Policia Local.  The forms were produced and the Comisario (the police chief) came to see how the situation could be resolved.





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16 Aug 2015 9:03 AM by arnolp04 Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 15 posts Send private message

Hi there,

Does anybody know what you do if you want to complain about a business that is in another part of the country? Can they send you the forms if you request them or must you go to their office?

All the best,

 

Paul



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16 Aug 2015 11:24 AM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4545 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

John will know better, but I'm pretty sure they're universal and not particular to the company, so you should be able to get one online, for example here: http://www.consumoresponde.es/sites/default/files/Hoja%20de%20Quejas%20y%20Reclamaciones%20no%20rellenable.pdf

John, as a point of interest, years ago I had an issue with RACC (over car insurance), and when I asked for the complaints form, they told me that as a private members club rather than a "normal" business, they did not have to carry them. I threatened to call the police and they said go ahead! On this basis, maybe even Cajas could try this ploy. Ever come across this?



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Mark Twain

 

 

 




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16 Aug 2015 2:54 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

Hi Roberto,

                              as you say they are not associated with the business against whom you make the complaint but issued, I believe, by each Region. I see from the internet there are variations between the forms issued by various Regions, although they follow a similar pattern.

I do not know how one submits a complaint against a business which is not based locally to the complaint, but any Consumers office, at a town hall would know.

I did on an occasion have a complaint against Televia (Nationally based company). I took all the forms to my local consumers office and they dealt with it.

Interesting to see your comment about private clubs etc. I have so far not been in that situation but will bear it in mind.

Just did a googled search and cajas do have them available, so not private members clubs as RACE (Automobile club of Spain).





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23 Sep 2015 1:07 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4545 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Interesting story from El País about the latest absurd enforcement of the so-called "gag law". I can relate to that, since I regularly see our local police park on the zebra outside our place while popping into the cafe next door for breakfast. (I'm hoping they don't read this indecision )

I recall from a previous thread that Johnzx said "the complaints form must be available in every establishment in Spain, including the police..."

I'd be interested to know, John, since you may have first hand knowledge of this - presumably now that it appears to be effectively illegal to complain about the police, they no longer have complaints forms at the police station? If they do, would anyone dare to fill one out with a complaint about the police themselves?  Is there any equivalent here to the Police Complaints Commission? If so, I presume they're out of work now, too? Or are they just scanning social medai looking for members of the public (who pay their wages) to sue?

 



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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23 Sep 2015 2:04 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

Whilst not condoning it in all cases, a police officer in UK can authorise himself, or a member of the public, to do something which does not comply with parking regs.   When I was a young PC in UK posted to ‘crime prevention’ in the vicinity of a bank, I would tell people collecting largish sums to park on the yellow lines outside the bank.  That way there was less chance of a robbery than there would have been had that person had to walk some further distance to a legal parking space. I also could not try to protect bank customers when they were going off in many directions.

So complaining about police parking ‘illegally’ may not be effective.

 

In the case quoted about the man charged under the ‘gagging law’ he admits to posting,  “It’s 1.30am, I’m calling the police and they aren’t there, but you can find them having a cup of coffee in the village up the road every morning.”   I see that as very different from asking for a complaints form at a police station because one believes they did not receive the quality of service they might expect.

 

Unfortunately, increasingly so, many Brits think they have a right to say practically  anything they like about anyone.  That is not always legal in UK (example: the McCann’s got a million in damages from 2 newspapers when the published readers libellous posts) and certainly not legal in many other countries.  When in Rome etc.

 

The police still have Complaints Forms and I would not hesitate to ask for them.

 

PS On refection,   I would say that if one believes a police officer has broken the law, then making a denuncia may be the correct course to take. Of course though being aware that making statements which one does not believe to true amount to a criminal office punishable with imprisonment and or a fine.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 23/09/2015.


This message was last edited by johnzx on 23/09/2015.



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23 Sep 2015 7:07 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4545 posts Send private message

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Interesting response, John!

I would submit (your honour) that the man in Pizarra merely stated facts: 1) nobody answered the phone at 1:30 in the morning; 2) the police can be found having coffee down the road in the village in the morning. This primate in Torremolinos merely stated a fact: the local police park on a zebra when having their coffee in the morning. Stating facts, however embarassing to another party, surely cannot be libelous or illegal? This is not a statement which I believe to be not true (strange suggestion). I could post photos to prove it, but of course, that would be illegal. surprise

The woman who posted a photo of a police car "parked" in a disabled space was told that the officers were chasing a suspected criminal, which of course was possible, and would therefore be akin to you suggesting bank customers park briefly on a yellow line - the circumstances allowed for an exception to the rule. She didn't know the facts so perhaps should have kept schtum. But how is that similar to uniformed (presumably on duty) officers sitting in a cafe chewing the fat while their car is obstructing & endangering pedestrians? Our man in Pizarra may have been a tad sarcastic (I've been known to be also, which may be why I sympathise with him) but his point was valid, namely that nobody answered the phone when he needed them. The manner in which he complained about this lack of (public) service may have pi55ed a few people off, but his complaint was, nevertheless, surely justified? It certainly got noticed, and solicited a response. But why could that response not have been a little more gracious and humble? Like an apology, or at least an explanation, rather than acting like bad losers and issuing him with a denuncia?



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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23 Sep 2015 8:04 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5255 posts Send private message

But why could that response not have been a little more gracious and humble? Like an apology, or at least an explanation, rather than acting like bad losers and issuing him with a denuncia?

It being Spain, of course it was a judge who decided the action to be taken.





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