Car Tax

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26 Oct 2014 08:28 by NoraJones Star rating. 9 posts Send private message

We are planning on bringing our car over to Spain and then buy another one in Spain (left hand drive).  We are aware that the vehicle we are bringing across has to be taxed for 6-12 months in advance.  In the UK now are not required to display a tax disc as they have now got rid of them and use a database to see if your car is taxed.  My question is, how do/would the Spanish authorities now whether my vehicle was taxed or not?

 

Thanks

 

Nora





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26 Oct 2014 09:51 by newworld Star rating. 937 posts Send private message

Would you not want it taxed anyway, even if the the police knew or not, (for you own piece of mind) if you had a  accident the insurance company & police would want to see that all your docs was up to date. i know because it happend to me.





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26 Oct 2014 10:52 by baz1946 Star rating. 2216 posts Send private message

We are planning on bringing our car over to Spain and then buy another one in Spain (left hand drive).  We are aware that the vehicle we are bringing across has to be taxed for 6-12 months in advance.  In the UK now are not required to display a tax disc as they have now got rid of them and use a database to see if your car is taxed.  My question is, how do/would the Spanish authorities now whether my vehicle was taxed or not?

 

Thanks

 

Nora

 

Your UK registered car has to be Taxed, insured and MOT'd to the UK standards when driving in Spain, in the event of any accident your UK insurance company could argue that you were not compliant and maybe give you grief over the claim, not saying they "Would," but might, and that alone cant be worth the bother for the cost of a couple of months UK Road tax.

If the Spanish police wanted to they can now check with the UK DVLA to get all your car details, the internet and computers are far reaching these days, some on here will say they cant, they can.

As you know you will get any remaining UK Road tax back when you sell the car, just make sure that when you sell the car you notify UK DVLA straight away, even if the dealer says they will do it, you do it.

Hope this helps you a little.





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26 Oct 2014 12:56 by scubamike Star rating in Murcia province . 220 posts Send private message

scubamike´s avatar

There are apps which can tell whether a GB vehicle is taxed that are available to anyone I am sure the Guardia have access to this and even better information if they want to 





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30 Oct 2014 11:58 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Please explain why a Spanish policeman would be remotely interested if you had paid car tax to the UK government?

Is it likely a law exists in Spain that allows a Spanish policeman to fine you for not paying UK car tax?

Your insurance is not invalidated because you don't have valid car tax, that's an urban myth. That only applies to an invalid driving licence and is clearly written in most insurance documents..

Insurance is a contract between you and the provider. Unless it is stated in the terms and conditions that you require specific valid documents they must honour the contract in the event of a claim.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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30 Oct 2014 13:30 by steone Star rating in Santiago de la Riber.... 386 posts Send private message

Mickyfinn, Mickyfinn, Mickyfinn, I didn't realise how niaive you were. (Assuming your post was not a joke)!

The reason why the Spanish police are interested in the fact that you have paid your tax in the country of origin of your car is quite simple. If no tax has been paid in U.K. then it is liable to be taxed (amongst other things) in Spain. One can not drive willy nilly on European roads without paying for them. Also all U.K. policies state quite clearly that any vihicle they insure must be 'street legal'. This means that they MUST have paid 'road tax', M.o.T. if necessary, the driver licenced to drive that vehicle and also be in a road-worthy condition. If any of these are not there then they will automaticly invalidate the policy without notice and then you are driving without insurance. Simples!!!!

Laws do exist that allow any policeman in E.U. to fine and or confiscate your vehicle if it is not street legal in country of registration. Also there are Laws that limit the time one can use a foreign plated car in another European country. So if you are intending to drive a U.K. plated car in Spain, make certain it is legal.

If your car is not legal and you have a 'minor' accident, your U.K. insurance company might not look too far into the claim. However if you have a major claim then they will be looking at ways to get out of paying. They will need to see when you left the U.K. and also the date the car will return. Without these documents they will not pay out on the claim so you will be personally liable for the total costs.



_______________________
Stephen



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30 Oct 2014 14:08 by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1112 posts Send private message

In answer to NoraJones original post, which appears to have got lost somewhere along the the line, Spain and other EU countries have access to the DVLA database. In the same way as UK police have access to EU drivers databases. Just look at a big clanp down recently carried out on foreign cars in UK. 

Just be aware that UK insurance companies will reduce your cover to 3rd party only as soon as you leave UK and generally only for a period of up to 3 months. (unlike my Spanish insurance which covers me Europe wide including breakdown assistance).

No road tax does not automatically invalidate your insurance. How else would you be able to get to a pre-booked MOT appontment? However, the Spanish police would, and do, take notice of untaxed cars and have, in this area anyway, impounded cars without one. 

 





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30 Oct 2014 15:17 by baz1946 Star rating. 2216 posts Send private message

 
 

Please explain why a Spanish policeman would be remotely interested if you had paid car tax to the UK government?.....

In the normal course of his day to day duties no doubt they wouldn't be concerned, but as your in Spain and should you have a road accident chances are you would hit a Spanish car, are you saying then the cop wouldn't check your UK car out, as well as the Spanish one, and if it was found to have no UK Road tax would he say nothing, also as its illegal to drive on any UK Road with no road tax, why is it okay to drive on Spanish roads then. Should you knock someone over would he check everything about your car?

Is it likely a law exists in Spain that allows a Spanish policeman to fine you for not paying UK car tax?

Your insurance is not invalidated because you don't have valid car tax, that's an urban myth. That only applies to an invalid driving licence and is clearly written in most insurance documents..

I don't think it's been said insurance is invalidated with no road tax, that might be correct if you killed someone, hit a post and try to claim then the insurance company could / might turn around and say you're not compliant with the road traffic act / rules so you shouldn't have been on the road, and might not pay out.

Its not invalidated because you have no road tax, but it might be if you have any accident.

Insurance is a contract between you and the provider. Unless it is stated in the terms and conditions that you require specific valid documents they must honour the contract in the event of a claim.

Yes, it is a contract between you and the provider, but the law says slightly differently, and as it's an insurance that insures you to drive a road worthy vehicle it can be argued if your car has no road tax "Is your car unroad worthy then?" The insurance company insures you on the understanding that you, the owner keeps the insured car in a road worthy condition to comply with the insurance.





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30 Oct 2014 15:37 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

My point is Baz1946, UK road Traffic law does not apply outside the UK. I know there are EU rules suggesting vehicles must be compliant with the law in the country where the car is registered. However the law of a nation state applies when you are in a particular country. EU rules are secondary to national laws.

For instance in France there is no such thing as car tax and an MOT lasts 2 years.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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30 Oct 2014 20:25 by baz1946 Star rating. 2216 posts Send private message

My point is Baz1946, UK road Traffic law does not apply outside the UK. I know there are EU rules suggesting vehicles must be compliant with the law in the country where the car is registered. However the law of a nation state applies when you are in a particular country. EU rules are secondary to national laws.

For instance in France there is no such thing as car tax and an MOT lasts 2 years.

Yes, Micky UK Traffic law might not apply outside the UK but the car has to comply with, if you're running a UK registered car on UK insurance, you have to have a current UK MOT and road Tax, and a UK registered car being driven in Spain has to have all these in place.

Don't know about France's Road Tax or the lack of it, and to be honest our MOT at 1 year after the first 3 years new car MOT is a good thing, I see 4 year old cars all day long with bald / damaged tyres, lights out, useless brakes, the list go's on, these are the same people who at a 2 years MOT would still be driving with dangerous items. 





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31 Oct 2014 08:05 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

 a UK registered car being driven in Spain has to have all these in place.

There needs to be a specific law in Spain that applies to these requirements. The law regarding UK registered cars applies mainly to the 6 months restriction and residency status. Perhaps you can point to the this particular Spanish law that applies to UK car tax.

It is possible to insure and mot a UK registered car in other EU countries providing it's compliant.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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31 Oct 2014 08:06 by steone Star rating in Santiago de la Riber.... 386 posts Send private message

I think that Mickyfinn does not understand the basic law. All cars in any E.U. country have to abide by the laws in that country. However as a concession, these countries will allow, for a short period of time, foreign vehicles to use its roads ,SO LONG AS THEY ARE COMPLIANT WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE VEHICLE REGISTRATION COUNTRY. This is basically to avoid congestion at any border crossing whilst ALL vehicles are made to have that countries rules applied i.e. one can not drive on our roads unless you pay our road tax, all cars have to have our countries MoT/ITV or whatever country you are in.

We all know people who break the law by using a foreign plated car that does not comply with the host country rules but that does not make it right. One can not choose which laws to abide with and which laws one won't abide with. That is called anarchy.

To get back to the original posting by Nora I would suggest you think long and hard about bringing your right hand car over to Spain to try and sell it in Spain. Unless your car is a highly desirable unique car, there will be a very very small market here that would want to buy a foreign plated car that is right hand drive. Also I am not certain of the actual legality of doing that as the Spanish might not be able to get their 'pound of flesh' out of the transaction. You should have in your mind the costs of changing the car to Spanish registration which will be about €1,000 to €2,000 including lights etc. and then having a vehicle with rhd which will bring you in less money when sold. If however you wish to continue to use your UK car in Spain for a few years then the cost of re-plating might be an option.



_______________________
Stephen



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31 Oct 2014 08:25 by baz1946 Star rating. 2216 posts Send private message

UK-registered vehicles being driven in Spain must comply with all UK requirements for road tax, M.O.T. and third party insurance covering the full time period the vehicle is used in Spain, up to the six- month limit.

Micky this above is from the UK government site.

There needs to be a specific law in Spain that applies to these requirements. The law regarding UK registered cars applies mainly to the 6 months restriction and residency status. Perhaps you can point to the this particular Spanish law that applies to UK car tax.

Their doesn't have to be any law in Spain that applies to these requirements because the UK registered car comes under UK laws while it's still registered as a UK car and driven by a UK person, yes of course this law only applies to the car for 6 months, the time it's allowed to be driven in Spain before either selling it or registering it as a Spanish car, which has been the purpose of the original post.

It is possible to insure and mot a UK registered car in other EU countries providing it's compliant.

You are probably right about that, I have no idea, when I have exported cars to Spain I let the new owner worry about that....After they have paid me.





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31 Oct 2014 09:21 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Spain is a sovereign nation state and any laws to be applied there have to have been passed by the Spanish parliament. There may be such a law in existance that's really the question I'm asking.

There has to be a specific law that exists in Spain that prohibits the use of an untaxed UK registered vehicle. Otherwise no prosecution can take place. UK laws do not apply in Spain and vice versa. The UK can insist all they like that their rules apply outside that country but in reality they do not.

I know a UK vehicle can be tested anywhere in the EU and then be compliant providing the headlights are changed. I have actually done it.

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 31/10/2014.

_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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31 Oct 2014 09:33 by baz1946 Star rating. 2216 posts Send private message

Spain is a sovereign nation state and any laws to be applied there have to have been passed by the Spanish parliament.....

Not for a UK registered car with UK Car insurance...UK MOT...UK Road Tax they dont.

There has to be a specific law that exists in Spain that prohibits the use of an untaxed UK registered vehicle. Otherwise no prosecution can take place. UK laws do not apply in Spain and vice versa. The UK can insist all they like that their rules apply outside that country but in reality they do not....

That has not been the question, the question was can a UK registered car...UK Insured car...UK MOTed car be driven on the Spanish roads with no UK Road Tax...No it cannot be to comply legally with the UK Insurance while the UK owner is driving it.

I know a UK vehicle can be tested anywhere in the EU and then be compliant providing the headlights are changed. I have actually done it...

Never said it couldn't be, never even mentioned anything about headlights...It's driving with no UK Road Tax that is in question.

 

 


This message was last edited by baz1946 on 31/10/2014.



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31 Oct 2014 10:16 by steone Star rating in Santiago de la Riber.... 386 posts Send private message

I don't know how to put this into such simple terms that even Micky can understand but here goes.

In Spain for any car to be legal to drive on Spanish roads it MUST adhere to Spanish laws which in this case we are talking about Spanish road tax. However under certain circumstances the Spanish law states that a car registered outside Spain can drive on Spanish roads SO LONG AS IT IS LEGAL IN ITS OWN COUNTRY. I am ignoring the 6 month rule here. This means that if in the country of registration it needs road tax then in Spain it needs to prove that it has paid this tax. There is a way round this and that is to pay the road tax in Spain and also comply with all the other rules and regs. of Spain.

If what Micky was stating was true then everybody would simply register their car in 1 country and then keep it another country.

It is also illegal for a RESIDENT of Spain (and U.K.) to own and drive a foreign registered car.



_______________________
Stephen



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31 Oct 2014 10:48 by argarcia Star rating in Torrevieja. 23 posts Send private message

Dear Nora, I would advise against to bring over a UK registered vehicle, better to sell it in UK. To bring over the car for use other than holiday implies that you will be exporting the vehicle from the UK in which case you would need to pay the appropriate import tax in Spain. If you brought the vehicle over in Spain with the intention to sell, and you have not legally exported the vehicle, no-one will buy it as the cost to re register would be probably more than its worth. Better to sell the car in UK and use the money towards removal fees/fares etc. Good luck.



_______________________
Andy R Garcia www.nonresidenttaxes.com



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31 Oct 2014 11:44 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Steone.

I would like to be directed please to any link you have that indicates what you say is in fact the law of Spain. I'm not saying you are wrong and I understand your points in their entirety. However I have actually searched to try and find the applicable legislation without success. My best guess is the average Spanish law enforcement officer would not understand that either.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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31 Oct 2014 13:18 by steone Star rating in Santiago de la Riber.... 386 posts Send private message

Micky

I am not a lawyer so I do not know exactly where to trawl through all the laws regarding cars etc. Might I be bold enough to ask our legal practioner on this sight to answer your question. You now raise some very interesting points and clarification is urgently needed. The average law enforcement officer in Spain does not usually know Spanish law let alone E.U. law. I understood that a U.K. plated car whilst driving in Europe should have paid road tax and if caught, say in Spain, for any offence and the 'locals' contact DVLA then you will get punished by the U.K. if not by the local country. However I do not know for certain and await the many replies this will generate.

I would think that the wording you are looking for will be held in Brussels and I wish you the best of luck going through their books.

I for one am not prepared to take a chance and use a UK registered car in Spain without it being strictly legal. Gone are the days when stopped by the local plod you can get away with virtually everything. Recently I was in a car stopped  for the usual check on papers. The owner of the car, who was driving. was asked her address in Spain and she could not remember it. The plod went to his car and came back in about 1 minute with her address. With police cars now with this technology are you prepared to take a chance and then argue your case from behind bars? You could be right but logic is not on your side.

You have now raised some more 'interesting' points. If, as you say, one can drive all over Europe, in a UK plated car,  without U.K. road tax how do you get the car home? Because as soon as you get off the ferry you might need to prove you have paid. You will also need a U.K. MoT and U.K. insurance. I  go back to previous comments that your U.K. insurance insists that the car has to be 'street legal' and without having paid ones road tax this can cause most insurance companies to void the policy.

 

Let the discussion continue



_______________________
Stephen



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31 Oct 2014 14:11 by baz1946 Star rating. 2216 posts Send private message

I have a friend who I have known and dealt with for more years then I care to remember, he owns a B & B and 4 cottages in France, he's quite mad in many ways, he flys over to the UK about 5/6 times a year, always buys a car of me to drive back to France, yep, I know they would be right hand drive, the last couple of times he has had a few issues with getting the car changed over onto the Frence car system, 3 months ago the last one I sold to him had no UK Road Tax and no UK MOT, I always put him and the car onto my UK Insurance policy for a couple of days to get him home to France, as I say "Quite mad". 

He drove down to Dover to get the boat, in the line up the customs guy pulled him over, told him he has no UK Road Tax, no UK MOT,  out of the kindness of his heart he let him on the boat because he is a Frence Citizen and would be putting it onto the Frence system ASAP, he is a Englishman, he then added on "Dont come back with this like it is"

So how did the Customs man know about the lack of documents?





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